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I don't know the way or the place - Subjunctive!

I don't know all the gramatical terms because I forgot them. But allow me to explain a use of the subjuntive that get's little airplay but is extremely important.

Usually subjunctive users focus on desires, wishes, demands, hopes, and emotions followed by QUE + SUBJ - "Espero que Lina TENGA su libro" - "I hope Lina has her book."

A previous poster speaking here about the SUBJ said "Just learn the key phrases ["Espero que", "Ojala que", "Quiero que", etc...] because as we know forming it is easy - knowing when to use it is the tricky part. True. However this post is not referencing those instances.

Another use for those that are OK with the above and with forming the subjunctive:

"The way or how" and "the place" (como and donde)

Quite simple actually - when you don't know the way or the place use the subjunctive.

Using COMO (or según - "according to")

When we know - indicative:

Me, you and Peter are talking about how we are about to make sancocho. You don't want to use onions and Peter does. So you ask me how I think we should make it. I respond "Haremos como dice Peter" - "We'll do it the way(how) Peter says". Dice is in the regular old indicative because I KNOW Peter wants onions.

When we don't know - subjunctive:

Using the same situation above but I walk up to the conversation in progress and you turn to me and ask how do I think we should make the sancocho, well since I know it's Peter's birthday I might say "Haremos como DIGA Peter" - "We'll do it the way(how) Peter says". DIGA is subjunctive because I DON'T KNOW how Peter wants it done. I was not there when the conversation was going on. I just walked up.

IF I know Peter wants onions because he ALWAYS wants onions (a habitual thing for him) I don't need to be part of the conversation beforehand - I know Peter's likes and I know you hate onions. So I could answer "Vamos a prepararlo como dice Peter porque a mi también me gustan las cebollas" - "Let's prepare it how Peter says because I like onions too"

An every day example is when the taxi driver offers you a choice of routes. You can respond "Como (Ud) QUIERA" - "However you want" (I don't know what route he prefers). Since I don't know what is his choice I have to use the subjunctive. If you use the indiciatve you will seem very awkward since this guy is a stranger - you are expressing a strang familiarity by saying "Como (Ud) quiere". Also "No me importa" is rude.

Another example, now using "the place" - DONDE

I dont know - Subjunctive:

"Este viernes vamos a salir donde QUIERAS- "this Friday let's go out where you want". -SUBJ. I don't know where you want but wherever you decide is fine by me.

If the person I'm talking to ALWAYS wants to go to a specific place and we go there every Friday night (habitual) although we didn't talk about it beforehand I would say "Este viernes vamos a salir donde quieres" - indicative - this translates the same as english above. Realize that the speaker is making an asumption here (where in the onions example where I was PART of the conversation I KNEW Peter wanted onions - no asumption).

In english to distinguish between these two, "the way/place", AND I do know the way/place it is conveyed by voice intonation, added words and sarcasm using both ("as usual", "For a change", "as if I didn't know").

***NOTE***

There's no emotion or hope or desire or key phrase or even a QUE in any of these sentences. However they are subjunctive situations and very common in every day speech.

By rocinante on May 12, 2008, 09:01 in Learn Spanish.

rocinante says on May 12, 2008, 09:09:

If you are confused ignore this:

NUANCE

I dont know - Subjunctive:

(recap)
"Este viernes vamos a salir donde QUIERAS- "this Friday let's go out where you want" - SUBJ. I don't know where you want but wherever you decide is fine by me.
(recap over)

If I say "Este viernes vamos a salir donde quieres" - indicative - and we DIDN'T really talk about it beforehand, I am asuming I know where she wants to go. She may respond "No, quiero hacer algo diferente". Or I could be starting something if she usually wants to go to her monther's and I don't like her mother - if I respond with the indicative I am assuming I know (that she wants to go to her mother's) and she could come back with a "You think you know everything" attitude.

If I respond with the subjunctive I am conveying that I'm not sure, enlighten me. If I SHOULD know where she wants to go and I use the "I don't know" subjunctive, I am implying indiference or unfamiliarity or ignorance. This can raise an eyebrow or start a fight. How could I not know?

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Not that the US president actually runs the US." Feb 5, 2008

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Portena says on May 26, 2008, 11:54:

Thanks, Rocinate! I like the examples you gave - very helpful. :)

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