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U.S and canadian citzen in jail in colombia and abroad.

Just watched a show on TV here in canada about people locked up in prizons in forien countrys.Some of them have not even had the benifit of a trial.The canadian goverment and embassys are totally useless and provide zero help...not even a visit or investigation.And of those convicted manny convicted with bogus or no proof.Even after knowing of canadians bieng held in forien prizons(without charges) for as long as two years...and knowing that torture was involved..such as bieng stripped and beaten and shocked with electricity all over icluding the genitals ..still they stood by and did nothing.They had the goverment minister of forien affairs and were asking him questions.As it stands at present if you get wrongly convited or framed with a bogus charge like having drugs planted on you ...you are S.O.L. and the canadian consulates will let you rot or die in a forien prizon and will do nothing...you do not exist.
Are american consulates any better?....do they at least investigate and give help to people in these`situations?....or are they nothing but a joke and lie like a candian consulate is in these situations.

By jinksmiester on Oct 28, 2007, 21:41 in Friendly Talkzone.

poco says on Oct 28, 2007, 21:48:

Quote: Are american consulates any better?....
NO

Quote: do they at least investigate and give help to people in these`situations?....
Almost zero

Quote: or are they nothing but a joke and lie like a candian consulate is in these situations

However, the U.S. does tell CITIZENS and it's on the OFFICIAL WEBSITE.
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_941.html Travel Warning.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/emergencies/emergencies_1212.html Crises

I've been arrested !!!!!! , whine, whine, whine
http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/tips/emergencies/emergencies_1199.h...
Drug related,,, ha, ha, ha, no-one gives a crap.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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Man Tequila says on Oct 28, 2007, 22:31:

I'm sure that in many cases their hands are tied, but it is disturbing they wouldn't request charges, trials or an investigtion where appropriate.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Peter (Moderator) (Dev team) says on Oct 29, 2007, 01:58:

Are you referring to the Canadian citizens that have been arrested by the USA, without trial, kept locked away for 2 years and tortured? Or is that a different story?

Poor but snappy

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pedro says on Oct 29, 2007, 02:19:

The US has at least applied diplomatic requests and pressure in the past:
http://www.corpun.com/sgju9403.htm

There are some Australians that were caught with drugs travelling into Indonesia. Some of them are facing the death penalty. Foreign affairs officials from the government are working quite closely with the families and lawyers, but there's only a very limited amount they can do.

"this may seem a strange post but it is not...when in colombia men need to be aware that colombia women may try to be seductive and entice a travelling gringo to have sex with them..to be forewarned is to be forearmed..." -- pow wow

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miamimike says on Oct 29, 2007, 02:24:

A Good example is that American Woman(young) locked up in a Peruvian Jail for allegdly cohorting with that Moaist anti-government group. The US Govt has done very little for her,goes to show its WISE never to become, as a Visitor, involved in another country's internal Politics.Pick your company wisely,,,

"You can take the Banana Out of the Republic but you Cannot take the Republic Out Of The Banana"

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jinksmiester says on Oct 29, 2007, 04:36:

The show is called the verdict....it runs on ctv.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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vicshere says on Oct 29, 2007, 05:04:

oh crap "anything"....what are those Canadian reporters a pack of liars......maybe you want to edit your comment?

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vicshere says on Oct 29, 2007, 05:17:

so you have no proof that what they report can not be believed?
"When I am in Canada"
so your not even Canadian to boot
what gives you the right to make such a blanket statement?

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Gator says on Oct 29, 2007, 05:44:

Again I repeat,as Dorothy said, "I don't think we are in Kansas anymore..." If you are a dual Colombian/US Citizen it's a whole different ball game. Under the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations which is the generally accepted standard for all countries, persons who have been arrested outside their own country must have access to their consular representative. While in Colombia, US citizens are subject to Colombian laws and regulations, which may and will differ significantly from those at home. Most important the only thing the Consulate can do is protest mistreatment or abuse to Colombian proper authorities.

What Consular Officers Can Do For You (BTW on the first one is a "guarantee" the others are at the pleasure of the government of the country.):

Make contact with you as soon as possible after notification of your arrest
Give you some general information about the legal system of the country you are being held in. Information may include details on legal aid (if available) and prosecution, remand, bail and appeal procedures, so that you will understand what is happening and be aware of your rights,.
Give you a list of lawyers. (The Mission cannot make recommendations as to which lawyer you should choose).
Arrange for your next of kin to be notified of your arrest, if you wish. (If you do not want your family notified, your request will be repected and the mission will withhold information about your situation from your family and friends. You should however, consider the distress and uncertainty your whereabouts and/or situation may cause your family. The disadvantages of their being kept in ignorance of your position far outweigh concerns you may have of their feeling on the matter. There is also the possibility of your family finding out about your situation from media reports in South Africa).
Assist in making arrangements to receive funds from your family.
Ensure that any medical or dental problem you may have is brought to the attention of the prison doctor/dentist.
Continue to visit you. The frequency of visits will depend on various factors such as the length of sentence, the distance of the prison from the mission, and so on. Most importantly, visits will depend on the mission obtaining local authorities' approval and prison clearance prior to any official visit, as well as the availability of funds.
Assist in making banking or other travel arrangements so that monies deposited by your family or others reach you.

What the What Consular Officers Can NOT Do For You:

Get you out of prison
Obtain legal advice on your behalf. Dealings with your lawyer is a private matter.
Pay for a lawyer's services, instigate court proceedings on your behalf or interfere in local judicial procedures to get you out of prison or get an early trial.
Obtain a better treatment for you than is provided for locals or other nationals.
Obtain bail for you.
Pay your fines.
Conduct investigations related to an offense.
Support you financially in prison. If you are unable to pay essential costs yourself or earn money by working in the prison, you will have to contact you family or friends for financial support.

"Bene, cum Latine nescias, nolo manus meas in te maculare" .

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vicshere says on Oct 29, 2007, 06:06:

my question stand pepe
"what gives you the right to make such a blanket statement?" about CTV
or what proof do you have to back this up

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Man Tequila says on Oct 29, 2007, 07:10:

Yeah, you want a station free of bias, like Fox.

It is amazing the crap these Toronto bashers come up with.

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gringolondinense says on Oct 29, 2007, 07:13:

LOL!! Gosh Canada is certainly a hot topic here at PBH!!!

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Man Tequila says on Oct 29, 2007, 07:40:

It is with people who lived there for three months and think they know everything about Canada.

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gringolondinense says on Oct 29, 2007, 07:41:

I wonder who could that be MT? :)))))

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Man Tequila says on Oct 29, 2007, 07:57:

It is fokin cold. No wonder we want to invade your country and make you eat waffles.

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gringolondinense says on Oct 29, 2007, 08:06:

"Canada is good for getting drunk. Just leave them your piss and vomit before you leave."

Hey Morphus you could write for bloody Lonely Planet!

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gringolondinense says on Oct 29, 2007, 08:14:

I worked with a lot of injuns during my 3 MONTH STAY in boronto. We had to carry plaster board up 6 flights of stairs. The injuns could carry twice as much in half the time as little old me. Jesus, it was friggin cold though. I had to wear all the clothes I had.

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Man Tequila says on Oct 29, 2007, 08:20:

Jeje. Lonely Planet. They hardly ever discuss piss and vomit and bodily fluids.

"The Bronx is not just a chit hole. It is the chit hole..."

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Man Tequila says on Oct 29, 2007, 08:39:

U.S. Customs: Do you have anything to declare?

Morphus: Oh, I'm just bringing back some piss and vomit.

U.S. Customs: You should have left that chit in Montreal. I'm gonna have to charge you a 10% duty on that chit. We call that the doggie duty.

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Man Tequila says on Oct 29, 2007, 08:46:

I think you did the right thing there. You don't want doggie duties.

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miamimike says on Oct 29, 2007, 08:59:

Canada is a great country, culture, outdoor sports, universities, Residents are nice. We(while I was in the US Coast Guard) visited Canada many times at various Lake Ports(also when our Ships transited the Mighty St Lawerence Seaway) and they treated us(us military) like Kings, Rolled out the Red Carpet for us in Montreal! We also used their Hospitals and Canadian Healthcare system. Never heard a Coastie utter a single complaint about our Canadian Hosts, esp the Beer. Ohh and most important, they brew some of the world's Best Beer, Lablatt Blue,,Great Moose, Deer&Bear hunting, not to mention the great fishing,,,Funny many complain yet the countries from which they arrive have treated them much worse,,,Like the Miami Cubans, after they arrive here and get all the freebies(college tuition, health insurance, food stamps, plan 8 housing, free public transit stamps, medicare, Social security checks) they are the first to complain and then complain the Loudest,,,I tell 'em to get right back on that fast boat that dropped them off in Miami and head back to Fidel's Paradise and their great beaches, restuarants and nightclubs where as a Cuban Citizen, they were not allowed to enter,,,LOL

"You can take the Banana Out of the Republic but you Cannot take the Republic Out Of The Banana"

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Monpirri says on Oct 29, 2007, 09:07:

That's nice to hear, but any foreigner who wants to visit or reside in another country he or she must abide by the laws of the host country and it does not matter if the citizen is from the moon.

"Anyone who still thinks that Colombia is not a gastronomical paradise needs to have their head examined." Darloup

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miamimike says on Oct 29, 2007, 09:10:

Monpirri--very astute advice-"He/she must abide by the laws of the host country" No arguement from me there.

"You can take the Banana Out of the Republic but you Cannot take the Republic Out Of The Banana"

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Monpirri says on Oct 29, 2007, 09:12:

Right On brother, I like Aguilas!

"Anyone who still thinks that Colombia is not a gastronomical paradise needs to have their head examined." Darloup

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Colombiche says on Oct 29, 2007, 09:12:

Toronto is the kind of city that people either love or loath with a passion. I have never seen any other city in the world take such beatings lol.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Oct 29, 2007, 09:14:

Toronto is such a hot topic at PBH.

Elmodefoque, up here it isn't that much colder than in NYC, really. we are only 7 hours away by car, 50 minute flight (mostly wesbound).

Montreal on the other hand is colder. Quebec is polar. BRRRR.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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poco says on Oct 29, 2007, 09:54:

Quote: toronto is not in montreal?

Sweden is EVEN COLDER !!! Think Alaska and you'll have a clue. Maybe Global warming will have a mitigating effect?

PS: Got to go lay by the pool.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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Man Tequila says on Oct 29, 2007, 10:14:

Though I always appreciate classy gifts, I really think the Bronx would make a better depository for your effluence. The rest of your chit, you can just post here on PBH as usual.

On the off chance you are talking about your minisigüi, however, just drop your package off with my friend Jenny from the Block, at 360 University Avenue, Toronto, Ontario, M5G 1S4.

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Colombiche says on Oct 29, 2007, 10:28:

Ha ha ha jacket in august? July and August are the hottest months of the year in Toronto. This year in August we had 35 degrees celsius temps right into late september, 20 something degrees in early october. It is starting to get cold now though.

I do find toronto slightly colder than NYC but not such a big difference, you ever been here?

I detest the cold either way. I could totally thrive on 38 degree celsius with 100% humidity every day of my life.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Man Tequila says on Oct 29, 2007, 11:50:

You marking your territory or something? I got a fire hydrant a couple of houses down. I can even give you antibiotics for your problem. I think you should stick to your original plan, since at least you don't think your chit ctinks. I get to see a lot of piss and vomit on the job too, but most folks don't take pride in it. I prefer my guests to be housebroken, despite the low value and high surface area of Canadian newspapers.

I personally consider Toronto to be mediocre. It doesn't excite me.

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Colombiche says on Oct 29, 2007, 12:25:

I love the scalding heat. I would be happy to wear sandals and sarongs all year round. Sit by a nice pool during the day and then sleep with a fan blowing air on my face all night.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Oct 29, 2007, 12:28:

How do you know you are going to be dead in 7 years? Did you plan your demise? I already have mine planned, at 55 I'm going to drink 2 bottles of ron viejo and jump into a pool. I'll play Octavio mesa while i down the shooters.

If I don't drown in the pool then I am meant to stick around and become a mean old lady, I 'll walk around hitting people with my cane.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Oct 29, 2007, 12:39:

I forgot to mention, when I jump in the pool I want "La Verraquera" to be playing.

Quiero morir con la misma verraquera con la que vivi esta maldinga vida hijuemama.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Mr. Hollywood says on Oct 29, 2007, 15:52:

I never really understood why my fellow Americans entertain the fantasy that somehow Uncle Sam is going to turn all protective and come rescue them when they wind up in a third world shithole jail? It's not like the government is all protective of you when you're getting a bum legal rap in the ol' USA, so why would they suddenly care when you're in trouble on someone else's turf?

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Man Tequila says on Oct 29, 2007, 15:56:

Good point, H.

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jinksmiester says on Oct 29, 2007, 17:28:

canada..and indeed the u.s are supposed to be countrys that (care) about human rights...indeed if you are a criminal from a different country caught in canada they will not release you to the country you commited the crime in if they feel you may be tortured or face the death penalty.They will denie the country you commited the crime in due process and justice....all in the name of human rights.At the same time they have canadian citizens bieng abuse ...tourtured and denied human rights and won,t even investigate.
If a person is guilty..they are guilty and deserve to be punished by the laws of whatever country they are in....that is justice...but bieng imprizoned and abused without proof or held without a trial they should have a duty to investigate.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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manINred says on Oct 29, 2007, 17:33:

I personally like Toronto!

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Man Tequila says on Oct 29, 2007, 17:33:

Did the show discuss Colombian prisons?

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miamimike says on Oct 29, 2007, 19:29:

manINred says on Monday October 29th, 2007 17:33:

I personally like Toronto!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------A Lot of Ohioans, Pennsylvanians and New Yorkers(buffalo area) also Like Toronto a lot. Since its only a 2-3 drive for many Folks in my Old Hometown area of Erie, Pa(No "Erie, the mistake by the lake" jokes please) many travel to Toronto for a weekend get-a-away and shopping trips. Everyone in my town coments postively on the Diverse culture, Theater, great public transportation, endless restuarants for every taste ect. If you are bored in Toronto, its your own damn fault. Ditto for montreal. If a person has never traveled the St Lawernce Seaway by Boat or ship please do, its the experience of a lifetime. Interesting transiting through the Locks if you are in a Large Ship observing the rapid rise and fall of the water. Not to forget, Canada is a Sportsman's Paradise across all the providences,,,

"You can take the Banana Out of the Republic but you Cannot take the Republic Out Of The Banana"

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Colombiche says on Oct 29, 2007, 19:57:

Well, you can certainly find plenty to do here in toronto if you know where to go.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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miamimike says on Oct 29, 2007, 20:07:

Colombiche-Ditto for that! I really miss the Canadian Providences and all they have to offer living here in Miami.

On another note for the Sportsman/woman PBH posters, anyone interested in Ontario Deer Hunting, check this website out. Look close, you may see none other then MMike with his trophy in a Photo,,,LOL

http://www.worldclassoutdoors.com/woodsbowhunting.htm

"You can take the Banana Out of the Republic but you Cannot take the Republic Out Of The Banana"

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john_stark says on Oct 29, 2007, 22:55:

Toronto has a lot of neighborhoods which are filled with people from various countries. My brother lives in a heavily Brazilian area and damm, those Brazilenas are hot. Of course it's wasted on him - he lives like some kind of freaking monk. He could be Buddhist or something but he needs to clean those pipes. Geez I'd have my monda cleaned regularly with some of those chicks.

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adrimm (Moderator) says on Oct 29, 2007, 23:11:

Funny timing for this thread.. CBC just aired a program about how hated Toronto is... (even in Ontario).

Personally, I've heard good, and bad things about Toronto - but have no personal opinion as I haven't spent much time there. Perhaps in a few years I will (if I can tolerate the summer heat & humidity)!

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miamimike says on Oct 30, 2007, 01:26:

Bazucojoe-I don't hunt anymore as I tired of eating Vension. I hunted for the meat. I see no difference in a Hunter harvesting a Deer(fair chase method, not canned bird hunts using tame phesants like VP dick cheney goes on) for its meat primerely as compared to Beef Cattle led to slaughter in a stockyard killed by a Butcher's bullet(bangstick). If you eat a steak or a store bought pack of trout, either way,, it lost its life for your plate. Take your choice as to what is more humane...

"You can take the Banana Out of the Republic but you Cannot take the Republic Out Of The Banana"

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manINred says on Oct 30, 2007, 11:24:

"If you are bored in Toronto, its your own damn fault. Ditto for montreal."

Yes, Miamimike, absolutely true. I agree completely. I personally couldn't live anywhere else in Canada (other than Toronto and Montreal), I might just go insane. I like visiting some areas, but never to live, and don't know Canadian geography at all, I hoenstly know more Colombian geography. That is the reason why most people in Canada don't like Toronto (I neither know nor particularly care whether that statement is true)... because we are to an extent self-centred, and I couldn't care less

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Mr. Hollywood says on Oct 30, 2007, 11:56:

"canada..and indeed the u.s are supposed to be countrys that (care) about human rights..."

Key word "supposed to be".

The truth is that the State Dept will exercise some soft influence if it feels you're getting reamed and thinks it can help. But it's never going to put the interests of the nation behind the interests of an individual or a few individuals. So good luck if you wind up in a Saudi jail or something like that, unless Condi Rice is your closest friend.

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Colombiche says on Oct 30, 2007, 13:34:

Toronto and Montreal, that is Canada pretty much. My sister lives in Calgary, but I find it honky tonky. Hongcouver, never been, but I hear it's nice.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Oct 30, 2007, 13:36:

If you are somewhat young and hip and have friends you won't be bored in toronto, you'll find stuff to do. The thing is you have to know where stuff is happenning. Some people get to Toronto, walk up or down Yonge street a couple of times and leave saying "boo".

Of course, there is nowhere near as much to do here as in other cities like NYC or London but oh well, gotta make the best of where you are at.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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john_stark says on Oct 30, 2007, 21:35:

There is a helluva lot more going on in Toronto than there is in all but a handful of US cities. If you're bored in Toronto, you're just not trying very hard. See how much excitment you get in Cincinnati.

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Robert Jorge says on Oct 30, 2007, 22:19:

JS, I guess we have different lifestyles. I love Cincinnati. I have never been to Toronto, so I can't compare the two cities. But besides one of the best zoos in the world, great museums, world class universtities, great night life, professional sports, historic buildings, outdoor activities, etc, Cincinnati doesn't have much to offer.

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Robert Jorge says on Oct 30, 2007, 22:24:

Actually with what I just said, I guess I ignored your intended point - that there is a lot going on in Toronto. I am sure there is. I would agree with you; if a person can't find much to interest them in a city like Toronto, they might not be trying hard. 'Cause there is a lot going on in cities like Indianapolis and Cincinnati. Saying you are bored in a city like Toronto would be like being bored in Chicago.

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john_stark says on Oct 30, 2007, 22:39:

It may have sounded like I was knocking Cincinnati but I've lived in some smaller cities like Tulsa which had a surprising amount to offer like a wonderful ballet company and symphony not to mention museums funded by oil money. My point is there are only a very few US cities with more to offer than Toronto. LA, Chicago, NYC, SF would be among them.

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goin_south says on Oct 30, 2007, 22:53:

""like Tulsa which had a surprising amount to offer like"".... hanging out on Peoria Street, in your car on Friday nights, or partying to the live music at Nine o' Cups...any night.

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Colombiche says on Oct 31, 2007, 04:44:

"My point is there are only a very few US cities with more to offer than Toronto. LA, Chicago, NYC, SF would be among them."

I said this before when somebody referred to Toronto as Boronto. The only US cities that surpass toronto are the ones john mentioned and maybe Miami - but only in terms of nightlife, weather and beach (certainly NOT culture). I think toronto is about 1/3 of NYC, a long way to go but way ahead compared to other US cities.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Oct 31, 2007, 04:47:

Atlanta? Can we include Atlanta in the list of US cities that have it going on? I have only spent a day there in passing, I wouldn't really know.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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gringolondinense says on Oct 31, 2007, 06:21:

I stayed in Hongcouver for a while also. (Listen up MT!!).

Its quite a small city, not very exciting. It does have a nice beach (Jericho beach) and there are some nice jazz and blues bars if you like that kind of thing. Countryside is nearby too, so you can grab some fresh air.

I did find the people a bit bloody weird though. A bit introverted. I also met a bald lesbian girl who refused to speak to me.

I hope Man Tequila will be impressed by my know-everything attitute, thorough-and-fair approach yet again.

End of report boss!!

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Man Tequila says on Oct 31, 2007, 09:12:

I find the people in Hongcouver bloody weird too. I left them my piss but not my vomit.

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manINred says on Oct 31, 2007, 12:16:

Wow, suddenly Toronto gets a passing grade :)

I had to unexpectedly come back last night from Montreal, and by god the climate here is fantastic. Quite frankly I really don't want to go back tonight.

Morphus, you're correct, however if we include Mexico in North America, the list is as follows:
1) Mexico City, DF
2) New York
3) LA
4) Chicago
5) Toronto

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Colombiche says on Oct 31, 2007, 12:46:

Mexico is not north America. Elmo said something to the effect of "north americans are gringos, not toothless spic/mexican injuns like me". That was his most brilliant quote ever.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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john_stark says on Oct 31, 2007, 15:18:

Like it or not, we've always included Mexico as part of North America. Everyone south of that, the hell with 'em.

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Robert Jorge says on Nov 1, 2007, 10:53:

Colombiche, I would include Atlanta also in the list. It is probably a notch lower than say Chicago or San Fransisco when it comes to culture, but there is a lot going on there. Of course it is obviously in the south, so many people would automatically disagree with me.

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