The bad Thing about Drug Traficking

Atrevido says on Sep 1, 2009, 04:40:

Ok...and what´s the good thing?

https://sites.google.com/site/colombianaturesite/nature-images

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ferran says on Sep 1, 2009, 06:04:

The Good Thing?

Is the life line of Colombias economy.

The Bad Thing?

Everyone wants a piece of the action.

All truth goes through three phases. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self evident.

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Aji1 says on Sep 1, 2009, 06:06:

...the really bad thing is that so many people are willing to kill to get and/or keep your piece of the action.

I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

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ferran says on Sep 1, 2009, 07:35:

Azu, I think he is in Bogota, with Uribe getting the swine flu, he might be helping him, I'm trying to set another interview with him soon, last he told me is that he's got some interesting information.

All truth goes through three phases. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self evident.

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Rikito says on Sep 1, 2009, 07:38:

On a serious note, probably the most difficult thing about Drug Trafficking is how to move the cash. How to get rid of the U.S. dollars. Think about it.

...and so it goes

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theflatline says on Sep 1, 2009, 07:42:

I knew anyone to suck a dick or knock over a liquor store for a Prozac.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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ferran says on Sep 1, 2009, 07:56:

I heard that the money from cocaine trafficking makes a good detergent for doing the dirty laundry.

All truth goes through three phases. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self evident.

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timeforachangeofscenery says on Sep 1, 2009, 08:13:

Farran, you said that drugs were the LIFE BLOOD of the Colombian economy. I believe that the circle of benefit extends only to the parties both directly and indirectly involved in the Colombian drug trade.

The unfortunate drug cartel leader can't bank the money - so it doesn't benefit the Colombian community through loans or mortgages. Drug boy can't declare the money so the drug proceeds don't create a taxation revenue for the government. Due to the money's uncleanliness, it does not filter into the Colombian economy.

The money can be exported in boats overseas and deposited into foreign banks - but that doesn't help Colombians - it does however provide benefits to the countries in which these funds are deposited. But then there's no reciprocity and again, the only people who benefit are either the druggies or foreign bankers - not Colombians.

You've seen how the drug cartel guys are forced to store their massive piles of money in houses stuffed to the rafters with drug money or buried in plastic bags in great big holes. This effectively takes the money out of circulation and helps nobody - except for maybe the army guys who wind up find the money after the drug dude has been killed or captured.

The drug industry is a parasite growing fat on the life blood of the Colombian people - returning nothing and benefitting only a small few.

To claim the drug trade is the life-blood of the colombian economy is just JIBBER JABBER.

Timefor.

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theflatline says on Sep 1, 2009, 08:17:

timeforachangeofscenery

Though I like your reference to Mr T with the Jibber Jabber, actually a god amount of that money makes it into the Colombian economy. I can think of two large chain stores in the country that were bought with it, and still use the dollars to buy tons of cheap chinese products, and then sell them at a loss to get the money cleaned. Plus they employee thousands of Colombians to work in them. Cheap products and wages.

More than you think flows into the economy.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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Rikito says on Sep 1, 2009, 08:27:

I doubt much flows into the economy. Even the Druggers admit that get rid of the cash is the hardest part of their operation. Think for a second...we are not talking about moving a million or two into 2 chain stores. We are talking about moving a Billion or 2. You can't put in the bank very easily because anything deposited over $5,000usd is reported to the government. Also, making routine large deposits also raises a large flag. But they do move some of it and at a very high cost. The kingpins themselves spend huge amount of time and resources moving money.

When you say that, "More than you think flows into the economy." I would like to know a) how it moves and b) what source do you have for saying this. It's just not that easy.

...and so it goes

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ferran says on Sep 1, 2009, 08:31:

This is a very interesting and real comment Douglas made the other day, Timeforachange, if that's the way you perceived it, your up to a rude awakening.
The process is so subtle and swift, that it doesn't make any waves

not as indirectly as you suggest.....a banker in Miami, boat dealers, etc. no, it's a bit more direct and intimate, although not so much a scene of "dealing dope" rather a negotiation. one example and probably the most wide spread. land use. as you know, all land in Colombia, primarily the large tracts, 50-100,000 hectare tracts. these are all owned by the clearly privileged. it's on these lands that the coca is cultivated. well the way it works with 'ease' is to have a deal struck between the grower/producer/trafficker and the land owner for a piece of the action. that way the 'operator' doesn't need to work clandestinely and simply gives the land owner product or cash. other arrangements are worked out with properties. the most common arrangement nowadays is in the cleaning of the funds. this is wide spread across the level 6 and above throughout Colombia. the monies in off shore holdings are brought into the country and processed through brokers and banks and development companies into inversion projects. once the off shore funds are 'processed' into real property holdings....and it can be under certain circumstances....raw development parcels; however this latter is done rarely. as guarantees needs be bonded insuring ultimate buildouts. once these projects are 'realized' the wet funds are now dry and clean. and for the governmental 'hands', tax revenue producing......in this way, all within the command structure receive their piece of the action. this is nothing new, but rather quite old, relatively speaking. it's been going on like this for maybe 35 to 40 years. and has been perfected, if you will, over the years. there's a third and more complex mechanism which is a funding consortium made up of large 'funds' contributors who make available funding for major works...infrastructure, coliseums, huge buildouts, airports, etc where the inversion goes into the billions. I've never been abreast of any of these but have only been privy to conversations regarding same. they also work deals within the natl banking system for out of the country projects. when i say that the really wealthy have their hands in this cash stream, i know what I'm talking about. clearly, they're not trafficking narcotics.....hardly, but they are active, profiting, participants in the proceeds. it works for everyone. they don't talk about "dope" they talk about money. and they make money and they actively apply themselves to cash positive activities. just like any of you do with your portfolios. it's just in this case, the portfolios are huge and the proceeds, equally large and the manner of exploiting the use of this 'cash stream' are just a bit out of the ordinary, and require a great deal of financial prowess. you see it in action in Medellin and certainly in the other large metro centers. in '89 when i first arrived, the only large building was coltejer...and between poblado and envigado outside of poblado plaza, there was no building more than two stories high. take a look at the architectural scape now. and many of these high rise investments are highly UN occupied. but they're doing their job. holdings for the owners and cash flow for govt. every body gets something, and happily. before this system was developed, it was all out warfare. the producers would transform their spoils into arms and ultimately conflict. under this system, there is relative peace and a much more respectable, wide spread use and enjoyment of the cash stream. d

All truth goes through three phases. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self evident.

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aztec says on Sep 1, 2009, 08:37:

Much of the real estate is supported by drug money. The money has been capitalized and can just sit there until sometime in the future when it can be converted. One of the reasons prices don't fluctuate with free market supply and demand.

One easy method is selling the apartment to a foreigner who has a banking account in their home country. The foreigner simply deposits the purchase price into the US account of the Colombian owner of the apartment. No transfer of funds back and forth between the countries,

You would be surprised at how many Colombians have a legal US checking/savings account. I suspect many also have European accounts.

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timeforachangeofscenery says on Sep 1, 2009, 08:51:

Theflatline, nice to talk to you. The chain stores of which you speak, when were they purchased ? Was it recently ? It might also not be a good idea not to name the businesses you believe were purchased with drug money - as these businesses would subsequently find themselves under investigation.

Further, if you are familiar with a landmark decision involving a blogger and defamation laws, it might be best to keep the names of these businesses to yourself - lest you find yourself on the wrong end of a defamation suit.

While you are correct that a massive amount of investment has been undertaken by drug dudes, and that revenue streams from these "investment" activities continue to flow, it has to be argued that the introduction of the Patriot Act, US pressure on foreign tax havens and the clamp down by the Uribe government on drug cartels has resulted in the "Life Blood" of the drug trade being effectively clamped.

I'm not saying that drug dudes aren't making out like bandits - I'm saying that anybody who puts drug money into a bank account anywhere in the world is going to need to be able to explain where it came from. This includes Colombia. If they wanna buy a house with cash anymore, they're gunna have to prove where the funds came from.

With all the drug dealing rats jumping ship and fleeing to Mexico, Colombia is finally able to shake off the yolk of the drug trade and move towards harnessing her land and resources in a way that will benefit the Colombian people as a whole.

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Haddeman says on Sep 1, 2009, 08:52:

Guys in Medellin,look at El Tesoro mall.Beautiful place full of expensive designer shops where nobody buys .people go there for the cinema,the ice cream and restaurants,the ambience and to be seen.The rest is one big money laudering operation .

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theflatline says on Sep 1, 2009, 08:53:

The two chains I know probably have 500 - 1000 locations each, big business and easy to wash money.

Most politicians and bankers are involved, so then invent really creative ways to launder money and make it legal so to speak

You make a deal to by product for half in China, then pay the other half in your illegal cash.

Source? A retired Colonel in the army, who is also a national security advisor. A father who is a prominent attorney, a grandmother who was a retired judge. An almost brother in law who owns fleets of tracta mulas who haul cargo internally at a loss.

If you think the Colombian government is the least bit honest, you have another thing coming.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) says on Sep 1, 2009, 08:54:

Shit. The entire Drogas La Rebaja chain was founded on drug money. That's no big secret. It supposedly is now owned by the employees, but who knows.

I'm so hip, I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis. - Zaphod Beeblebrox, Former President of the Galaxy and inventor of the Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster

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timeforachangeofscenery says on Sep 1, 2009, 08:59:

Oh and by the way........When I heard Mr T use "Jibber Jabber" for the first time - I laughed my a$s off !!!!

Has else seen that snickers ad with the soccer pussy falling down and pretending to be hurt. MR T rocks up in a TANK.......Tells the guy to "STOP YOUR JIBBER JABBER - YOU AIN'T HURT"

THe end of the AD, T holds up a SNICKERS and yells at the soccer fruit - "GET SOME NUTS"

HAHAHAHAHAHA

FUNNIEST AD EVER !

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FreakyG says on Sep 1, 2009, 11:39:

I pity the fooo who doesnt have love for MR. T!!!!

Thank You Eversomuch, and then some

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ColombianBound says on Sep 1, 2009, 12:54:

The bad thing? It hurts your butt to shove all those baggies/condoms up there.rnrn

"The good die young"... so get out and live.

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Aji1 says on Sep 1, 2009, 13:01:

OGM!!!!

Your going at it from the wrong end dude!

I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

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ColombianBound says on Sep 1, 2009, 13:11:

It makes you walk funny too....

"The good die young"... so get out and live.

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tlop says on Sep 1, 2009, 17:25:

Timeforachangeofscenery,

You don't appear to understand the concept of money laundering.

Dan

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ferran says on Sep 1, 2009, 17:42:

Azu, is this why I'm having back problems? I tought it was a good idea to stay close to my (friends) money.

All truth goes through three phases. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self evident.

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Dolfi says on Sep 2, 2009, 01:04:

Hm...I think what Pablo meant was that you can take as many pills as you like or drink yourself blind without any policeman or judge interfering, but having a small quantity of cocaine in your pocket brings you to jail. And the reason is that american or euopean big busines doesn´t get it´s share of the profits.

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perfectstranger says on Sep 2, 2009, 06:05:

Ferran obviously you know way more about the way drugs and the colombian economy in regards to it operates than timeforchangeofscenery.....Although I do not think you really got into, enough, they way hundreds of thousands of peasants were employed, schooled etc.. EVERYONE and sector of the colombian economy made MONEY...Many facets of the U.S. economy benefited... WAS IT ALL WORTH IT is the question. Just like any OTHER prusuit of money goes, major social, moral, philosophical, epistemological questions arise. The drug business is really o different than many other business like the legal druf business. Escobars point was simple and straightforward. Business is in WHOLE is Fcksd up that is undeniable. NO BUSINESS benefits "the people" and the people are smart enough to now that...hence they are hustling everyday to make ends meet. And let us not forget La Violencia the era unto which these drug traffickers were born. Did they perpetuate violence YES did the start it NO. Many multi-national companies have been cited for their MURDEROUS practices but none have been criminalized like the drug guys from Colombia. Shell (petrol) sprays nigerians with bullets on the regular killing thousands of innocents. THis is documented, supported by overwhelming evidence yet ACCEPTED. Pepsi company is causing thousands of deaths, homelessness, with their LEGAL business in India.

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Aji1 says on Sep 2, 2009, 07:35:

Legitimacy only requires the law on your side in our world. Can anyone say "Big Tobacco".

I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

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dwmte7 says on Sep 2, 2009, 07:52:

time for a change. you will discover in time, that the mannerisms of 'laundering' the hard currency is not effected in the least. there is no clamp down, and the u.s. will not in anyway involve itself in this 'tried and true' mechanism which ferran posted above--taken from comments of mine in another thread--BECAUSE, the ones who really administer the cartels, the banks, the govt. agencies in a manner of speaking are one and the same. these aren't shady dark dudes slinging crack on the street corner. these are oxford educated (harvard, princeton, et al) sophisticates, who live in a palace of wealth and who are each other's friends and business associates, who assist each other in transactions both in colombia and abroad, place these 'cash' funds into prudent investments. in colombia, in so doing, the money is no longer an asset 'of interest', rather an inversion which is now tax (revenue) producing for govt and insuring the govt it's share of the proceeds of this cash stream, regardless how the ownership of said properties is changed in the future.

also remember, that the appropriate parties in the u.s. have their hands in the cookie jar as well. everyone profits. everyone gets their piece of the action. the only loosers are those at the street level and the 'soldiers' who carry out the mean deeds associated with the drug trade. all of these players (the latins) the good, the bad, the govt et al, live next to one another in miami and visit and party with one another, enjoying their wealth......colombia's chief domestic product.
d

patriarch

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dwmte7 says on Sep 2, 2009, 07:56:

i might add, before this system reached it's current level of development, these proceeds were used to raise armys, cause meyhem and conflict, attack the govt.....as they are still used by the insurgents.

once this system developed, peace and calm began to settle in...as wit, the state of affairs in metropolitan areas throughout colombia. and again, the only exception to this growing calm and peace, is in the selva with the crazy insurgents who would rather wage war than settle down and cash in, like the smart guys.

now if you think the u's is gonna come in and rain on the progress parade, i regret to tell you that you're wrong. they're so happy that the pablo ways of doing things are passed. and that folks can once again live in a reasonable state of calm and stability.
d

patriarch

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ferran says on Sep 2, 2009, 12:39:

Listen to Douglas, he knows what he's talking about.

All truth goes through three phases. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self evident.

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quantum says on Sep 2, 2009, 16:17:

gettin my phd in money laundering right here on PBH.........let theze guyz know willya......Im available! Naaaaah..........bromeando......what happens when something goes wrong?? Gulppppp!

quantum

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dwmte7 says on Sep 2, 2009, 16:37:

the way i see it from the peanut gallery, they've managed to work out a system where by those 100 billion dollars in old wrinkled twentys get spread across a lot of hands...no body's killin each other, a lot of real property is being built, infrastructure is being advanced, and malls are poppin up all over the place. and from a loose glance around, folks seem to be enjoyin it all. the gals have their credit cards and high heels, the guys have their guaro, caballos, and 2nd honies, the hands at the top don't seem to be squackin and the folks back here in the states all seem to have smiles on their faces, and none of the above give a shit about the poor and displaced, so forget them, they don't count.

business as usual.

patriarch

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perfectstranger says on Sep 3, 2009, 05:36:

The idea here, for the U.S. and Colombian government is not to STOP drug trading it is to CONTROL it and the proceeds for their own advancement. They are currently a little salty because they did not get in on the action quite as early as Escobar. Laundering money ain't that hard as long as you do not have a problem with the fee. There is exploitation is a necessary part of business as we know it, and government as we know it. Is it something that people complain about but few people in either countries in question do anything at all about it, except get poorer while the few go out and party as you say dwmte7.

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dwmte7 says on Sep 3, 2009, 17:17:

it's gonna take the REAL powers that be a long time to figure out it's really in their long term interest to use a 'control' attitude, because the control over the criminality really eats into their profits and reaks havoc throughout society and reduces the addictive mentalities to bestiality, uncontrolable delinquents.

they'll come around in time, but there's gonna be a lot more of the meyhem we live with today, before rationality and REAL profit reigns supreme. power and it's pursuit, often reduces it's pursuers to dummies.

patriarch

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perfectstranger says on Sep 4, 2009, 16:46:

in other words...the governments do not wish to stop the drug trade, the wish to stop the traffickers not affiliated with them so that they may take over the drug business for themselves.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 4, 2009, 16:51:

OMG ...Bambi is back!

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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dwmte7 says on Sep 5, 2009, 07:20:

it really is a 'mutual participation society' and they definitely want participants who play by the unwritten rules. that way the violence is clearly curbed as wit, the state of metropolitan areas and how they've changed over the past ten/twelve years. renegades--within colombia--are discouraged from playing, as they promote violence and meyhem. on the other hand, the real capos, have cooperated with the powers that be and the change is clearly noteable. anyone who witnessed the pablo years is living testiment.

how to get the insurgents on board is a problem. unfortunately, i don't think anyone has approached them on the 'participation' level. it's an avenue worth pursuing. the difficulties that arise around this pacification process now in place is that it exports the violence to primarily mexico, puerto rico other caribbean governates and ultimately the u.s. and europe as well as other countries.

patriarch

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