Jail for Danish 'terror T-shirts'

kalder says on Sep 19, 2008, 00:15:

You can still buy (if you're a moral cretin) such snazzy items as this through their website:

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JGD says on Sep 19, 2008, 10:02:

it was due a long time ago !

Panties not best thing on earth, but next to best thing on earth.

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PBHjon says on Sep 19, 2008, 10:53:

they should have beaten and shot the pro-terrorist idiots who wanted to donate their revenue directly to the terrorist groups.

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Sam Salmon says on Sep 19, 2008, 11:13:

It's Good News to be sure.

Just to clarify-Denmark is a small little known place and some may think poorly of Danes because of this incident.

However the people pulling this kind of garbage are in fact a bunch of dimwitted homeless squatters-the 'entitlement generation'-people who are in no way representative of ordinary Danes.

' a la orden!'

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el_scouser says on Sep 19, 2008, 11:15:

ummm, Denmark, 'little known'.....which school did you go to???

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 19, 2008, 11:20:

These are just a bunch of kids....the incident is blown totally out of proportion. The few dollars they have been able to make is less than a drop in the ocean compared with the money the FARCs are making with their drug trafficking. It makes absolutely no difference to anybody. A bunch of idealistic, misinformed kids...we do have those in every country. Until they grow up and turn to something more damaging for the society...like corporate bosses.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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La_Huella says on Sep 19, 2008, 12:37:

How can you sit here and defend giving money to the FARC? Seriously, what kind of line of thinking leads to that??

I don't care if they gave even one red cent, they should rot in jail for it. Giving money to an org like the FARC is reprehensible on every conceivable level and in no ways should it be legally tolerated.

I say drop them off in the middle of the Plaza España unarmed and undefended after making sure the whole country knows who they are and what they did!

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dualta says on Sep 19, 2008, 12:44:

I agree totally with Desidera, they raised s total of 10 million COP between the two organisations. These are kids making and selling Tshirts. Do you really think they should be "beaten and shot "? Neither organisation needs the money. They have much better funding than these kids. How many of you have woren an ANC ( Mandela) or Che Guevera T-shirt ( Jim fitzpatricks image) when younger. Both were considered terroists in their time. Should you have been Jailed for purchasing a T-shirt and therefor funding a terroist orgnisation! If you want to be angry at someone direct it towards the Judge last december who said the FARC was not really a terroist organisation!

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 19, 2008, 12:47:

Step down from your high horse, I'm not defending anybody. It's just that I see these kids around, just bored, looking for "noble causes" to do something with their little lives. These are the same kind of kids as the Dutch girl who joined the Farcs because she believed they were fightig for social justice and equality and peace and all in Colombia. They don't know what's going down in Colombia and they are going to jail for it. Their crime is of minor importance and can be chalked off as juvenile prank, a uni thingie. Their lives won't be ruined for that.

They got their punishment because it was technically a crime, since the EU had listed the FARC as a terrorist organisation. There are lots of people here, however, who even if they don't approve the methods the FARCS are using think that there's a lot of room for improvement in Colombia.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Sep 19, 2008, 12:58:

They may be misguided teens but they can become very dangerous. The Dutch girl spent her days in Colombia looking at the sky and waiting to shoot down a passing helicopter. "Guzman" (or something like that) probably turned a few idealistic university students in Peru into murdering thugs in the Sendero Luminoso.

I wanted access to health care, housing and education, but, no, I get potholes, trash and silicone tits instead. -Desi.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 19, 2008, 13:30:

The Sendero is finished and the idealistic Peruvian youths will have to look for something else for inspiration. I believe those misguided youths in Denmark are only dangerous to themselves.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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billyb says on Sep 19, 2008, 14:34:

"It's just that I see these kids around, just bored, looking for "noble causes" to do something with their little lives."

I've got a "noble cause" for them, get a FOKIN job.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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pobrecito says on Sep 19, 2008, 14:55:

Read what you write. Are you not the troll ?

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pobrecito says on Sep 19, 2008, 14:56:

Drinking too much Coca Cola and eating too many Big Mac is very destructive for the brain.
It makes you believe that Palin can say something intelligent.

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pobrecito says on Sep 19, 2008, 14:59:

Speedy Gonzales is here ! Two comments, one of billyb and one of myself were deleted in a few seconds !

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Sep 19, 2008, 15:00:

Stay on topic, Buggy, and stop stalking people around the board.

I wanted access to health care, housing and education, but, no, I get potholes, trash and silicone tits instead. -Desi.

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billyb says on Sep 19, 2008, 15:01:

When they make me believe you can say something intelligent, then I'll put away the the Coca Cola and Big Macks.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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pobrecito says on Sep 19, 2008, 15:01:

OK Tinto.

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PBHjon says on Sep 19, 2008, 15:34:

Radical leftists frequently support terrorist groups, and it has nothing to do with idealism. It has to do with an impaired ability to think logically, many radical leftists are complete idiots. There is no reason that the Sendero Luminoso, Al-Qaeda, the PFLP, or the FARC should be idolized by these dimwitted morons. I am sorry they received a slap on the wrist, instead of serious jailtime, which they deserved.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 19, 2008, 15:50:

"It's just that I see these kids around, just bored, looking for "noble causes" to do something with their little lives."

I've got a "noble cause" for them, get a FOKIN job. (Billy)

I wish it could be that simple. We have lots and lots of young people who spend their days playing video/pc games, There aren't enough jobs and with the automatization and computarization of everything the jobs are less and less every day. Too much free time is not good.
PBHjon, I believe you're basically very, very mistaken. There's nothing wrong with these kids' ability to think. There's a reason for FARC, for Sendero and the rest of them, they don't exist in a vaccuum. It's just not YOUR reason. (NOT mine either, but the reason exists).

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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billyb says on Sep 19, 2008, 15:53:

"There aren't enough jobs"

But Desi, I have a feeling that these particular ones never even thought of looking for a job.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 19, 2008, 16:06:

I've got no idea, perhaps you're right. I still see them as misguided, idealistic youngsters, possibly with wealthy parents and never had to struggle for living. They're no hard-core criminals, no bloodthirsty terrorists.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Sep 19, 2008, 16:10:

They should have went to the campus library and learned about the ramifications of sending money to a designated terrorist group. What they're doing now - sending money to displaced people or victims of violence - makes a lot more sense, even though I still think they haven't researched either pet cause very well.

All in all, they're not very bright and they might have done something really stupid that will follow them for a long time. I'd hate to have to explain away six months in jail or a suspended jail sentence when I went to apply for a job.

I wanted access to health care, housing and education, but, no, I get potholes, trash and silicone tits instead. -Desi.

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PBHjon says on Sep 19, 2008, 16:21:

Desideria, there is a reason the Nazis existed too. And it doesn't mean the reason is intelligent, legitimate, or in any way reasonable. Terrorist groups are scum, and we can seek to understand their existence, but that doesn't mean we should respect them or their fans.

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Loggi says on Sep 19, 2008, 16:46:

Desideria You are making a great many excuses for these guys. What they did was wrong and the law has taken its course. They were most probably hoping to get some discount on their next purchase by supporting these drug peddling terrorists.

Live for the moments you can't put into words

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Simon says on Sep 19, 2008, 17:37:

What a surprise that our (DELETED)moderator is sticking up for these scumbags!!

I would expect no less from her!

Simon I deleted your libelous accusation regarding me.

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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dualta says on Sep 19, 2008, 17:52:

"Radical leftists frequently support terrorist groups, and it has nothing to do with idealism. It has to do with an impaired ability to think logically, many radical leftists are complete idiots. There is no reason that the Sendero Luminoso, Al-Qaeda, the PFLP, or the FARC should be idolized by these dimwitted morons. I am sorry they received a slap on the wrist, instead of serious jailtime, which they deserved."
I do in all all sincecrity hope you are joking. In my experince support for these groups has rarely gone beyond nationalism and food .
I am by no means a suppoter of the FARC I detest them but PHBjon you need to be aware of real politic.
It always stupifies me when people compare leftist organisations to facists( Nazis as per Pbhjon understanding nothing about the canyon of a difference.
I will repeat what I said earlier I detestes the FARC but the political discusions I see here disgust me as much. The Blind masses preaching to the blinder.
By the way are you PBHjon a US citizen?

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Simon says on Sep 19, 2008, 18:34:

"These FARC shirts are extremely offensive and hurtful to many people, especially in Colombia. Its exactly how Israelies would feel if they saw someone wearing a Nazi T-shirt."

Very well said!!

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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Sam Salmon says on Sep 19, 2008, 18:52:

People who constantly make excuses for lawbreakers are part of the problem.

Note that these criminals are squatters living on welfare-I doubt any have worked a day in their shitty lives.

Give them 6 months in a Colombian prison and those on parole can serve it living in some remote part of BQA-the areas even Elmo won't go to.

' a la orden!'

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billyb says on Sep 19, 2008, 19:24:

Make them go cut down coca plants in the mountains for 6 months and let them see what their "noble cause" hath wrought on the campesinos of Colombia first hand.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 20, 2008, 01:02:

Billyb, that would have been an excellent punishment for them. A true learning experience.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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JGD says on Sep 20, 2008, 04:31:

I saw lots of foreigners in the US (especially latinos) getting D.W.I. (drunk driving) charges simply b/c they didn`t know it was a serious crime (I believe is a felony in Canada, right?). Would you just let them go b/c they didn`t know orb/c they are young or misinformed?

Those uniformed, bored, idealistic, looking for guidance kids did something very very very harmful. it`s not the amount of $, as many people already said, it`s the fact that they were trying to legitimate a terrorist organization.

I`d like to know if those "kids" would be selling the same T-shirts, had FARC detonated bombs around their corners...

Panties not best thing on earth, but next to best thing on earth.

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pobrecito says on Sep 20, 2008, 05:08:

More noise about some guys who gave a handful of dollars to FARCs than about paramilitaries who gave millions of dollars to politicians.
Why is there such "omerta" about paramilitaries?

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juli says on Sep 20, 2008, 07:16:

This is about FARC supporters and how they are rasing money and legitimizing the FARC in Europe. No more no less. Stay on topic pobrecito. The whole idea is more than just handful of dollars. Excellent points have been made here with the exception of:

"Their crime is of minor importance and can be chalked off as juvenile prank, a uni thingie."

Desi I know you are a moderator here but for as long as I can remember I always read your posts and think of you as someone who is not in touch at all with Colombia. Sorry.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 20, 2008, 07:26:

"I`d like to know if those "kids" would be selling the same T-shirts, had FARC detonated bombs around their corners..." (jorgediaz)

Probably not.

Juli, what does the Danish kids selling t-shirts have to with being or not "in touch" with Colombia? No, I'm not looking out of a window in a Medellín high-rise, but I may have a wider experience over a much longer span of time on Colombia as a whole than you yourself. Perhaps the distance I'm keeping right now does not make me as nearsighted.
But whatever, you're entitled to your own opinion.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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pobrecito says on Sep 20, 2008, 07:55:

"Stay on topic pobrecito."

I think I am fully in the topic.
Why all this noise?

Because each time Uribe has difficulties, he finds a subterfuge to distract attention.

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pobrecito says on Sep 20, 2008, 07:58:

Uribe or his furibistas ...

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pobrecito says on Sep 20, 2008, 07:59:

Why does nobody here speak of Rito Alejo del Rio?

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Simon says on Sep 20, 2008, 08:27:

"Simon I deleted your libelous accusation regarding me."

The truth hurts, doesn't it?

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 20, 2008, 09:23:

No, the truth sets you free. It's LIBEL that hurts. I travel to Colombia, I have a home there, I have family and friends there. I'm not exactly secretive about my identity. I cannot be falsely accused of being a guerrilla supporter, first of all because it's NOT TRUE and secondly because bad labels tend to stick, so I'm stopping it RIGHT HERE.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Simon says on Sep 20, 2008, 09:40:

What else can you except when you feintly defend these idiots?

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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pobrecito says on Sep 20, 2008, 10:22:

Take Prozac, Simon.

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Dolfi says on Sep 20, 2008, 14:26:

Allways the same, one man´s terrorists are another man´s freedom fighters...and so on.

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La_Huella says on Sep 20, 2008, 14:41:

No. The FARC are not freedom fighters. They are just terrorists.

And anybody who thinks they have even an iota of legitimacy left are absolutely completely and positively out of touch with the Colombia of today. Colombia continues to have social problems like anywhere else, but it is a lot better here now than it ever has been in history. You have to be really seriously profoundly arrogantly fooling yourself to believe otherwise.

Making a FARC T-shirt and selling it can be reasonably allowed as free expression, much as any reasonable Colombian would be offended and disgusted by it. Giving the money to the FARC is where those assholes crossed the line, they are now no longer rebels without a clue, they are criminals, no better than any thug or robber or con man or sicario.

I advise any university age eduacted idiots in North America and Europe to stay the hell out of Colombian politics. Take a lesson from these geniuses. Colombia is doing a lot on its own to solve its problems. Your misguided interference doesn't help at all.

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romy says on Sep 20, 2008, 17:01:

"Colombia is doing a lot on its own to solve its problems."
huh? obviously I should disregard your entire comment as clueless

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pobrecito says on Sep 21, 2008, 00:53:

Nobody answered my question:

"Why does nobody here speak of Rito Alejo del Rio?"

Is he a freedom fighter?
Or a terrorist?

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La_Huella says on Sep 21, 2008, 02:35:

Whatever Romy. The fact is it's better here than it ever has been in the whole history of the nation. I don't know why certain people can't just get over it and be happy.

The last thing Colombia needs right now is a bunch of meddling from socialist Euro trash. They are lifting themselves out of the muck just fine, thank you.

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pobrecito says on Sep 21, 2008, 05:45:

socialist Euro trash ?

Your thoughts are very elegant.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 21, 2008, 06:08:

"The last thing Colombia needs right now is a bunch of meddling from socialist Euro trash" La_Huella

I thought the last thing Colombia needed was arrogant, meddling Canadian musicians.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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manINred says on Sep 21, 2008, 06:14:

hey, the world could use a few more musicians... Canadian or otherwise :)

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manINred says on Sep 21, 2008, 06:15:

anyway, where on earth do canadian musicians figure in this discussion? i must have missed something, lol!

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turnmeon says on Sep 21, 2008, 08:37:

i can clearly see that pobrecito is mad because his terrorist supporters friends are going to jail, and start talking about Uribe and blablabla, brainwashed?

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La_Huella says on Sep 21, 2008, 10:43:

Keep going Desi. Show your true colors. Let the rest of us see you for who you really are.

For the record I do NOT meddle in Colombian national affairs or Colombian politics. I have opinions, and that's as far as it goes. This is not my country and I have no say in how it should be run, nor should I.

Unlike certain elements, I don't have any sense of moral superiority to Colombians. I happen to enjoy living here and can see the positive change almost from day to day, although the last two mayor Bogota has had have sucked. But the bottom line is it's up to Colombians to sort out their problems, and frankly, I TRUST THEM.

So let's compare, we are talking about an expat who lives in Colombia and is of the opinion that Colombia is changing for the good and is happy about that, and a bunch of dumbass college kids who do not live in Colombia, probably will never touch Colombian soil, and decided in their infinite wisdom to break national and international laws and send money to an organization that is trying to destabilize the government here. Desi, frankly I don't see the analogy. I'd try to explain it to you with drawings but I really don't think there is any hope for you.

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pobrecito says on Sep 21, 2008, 10:47:

Did you ever learn gallantry and decency in your rude life ?

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 21, 2008, 11:07:

I, unlike some other people here, always show my true colours.

I wasn't really defending these kids at all, just pointing out that the incidence is basically of no consecuence, except for themselves who got some jail time. It was blown out of proportion by media, the kids still don't believe the FARCS are terrorists but see them as freedom fighters, but justice has been done and everybody happy.

So what have they accomplished? What was it...2000 dollars to the FARC? Convince people that the FARCS are fighting a legitimate war against a corrupt government? I seriously doubt anybody out here has changed their minds about the FARC or the Colombian government for that matter. Few people pay attention at an obscure low-intensity armed conflict ina far-away Third World country. FARC is not really a household word in Scandinavian countries, we're more familiar with problems closer home.

No, I don't think there is any hope for me, but then again, I don't believe theres any hope for you either.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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JGD says on Sep 21, 2008, 12:19:

totally out of persective...
if the Danish govmt didn`t do anything, it would have the equivalent to endorising the actions. The Danish govmnt considers FARC as terrorist organization. If those kids don`t like it, they better take to their legislator.

Panties not best thing on earth, but next to best thing on earth.

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MaFe says on Sep 21, 2008, 14:14:

Bunch of kids my tush! Please teens know the difference bettween tight and wrong...if you don't stop that hate now...when will you stop it?
They should have burned them alive!


La huella...I believe you are right!!

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

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La_Huella says on Sep 21, 2008, 16:00:

Desi, re-read your first post in this thread. I for one took it as you implying that jail time was not indicated, and I bet I'm not the only one. If you think it was a just sentence then I really don't know what you are driving at.

Do you think that this discussion could stay on topic and not be a personal inquisition into my or anybody else's life? You mods seem to have a tough time following your own rules on here.

Pobrecito, let's get something straight. I am a big fan of Carlos Pizarro. I consider him a personal idol of mine. I respect Uribe much as I respect Castro as being intelligent people, but I don't personally agree with the philosophy of either of them. But besides all that, I am not an idiot. I have my eyes wide open and I can see the positive change here. I think there is a little room between being a wide-eyed worshipper of Uribe and thinking he is solely responsible for the improvements, and being a rifle-wielding revolutionary.

What I don't respect is stupidity and ignorance. The last I checked, ignorance of the law is not nor has even been an excuse for criminal behavior in any civilization. Now since I have done you the favor, please respond in kind, talking about the issue at hand.

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billyb says on Sep 21, 2008, 16:39:

Let's not get too excited, these "noble' and 'misgiuded" , and bored and whatever excuse we want to drum up for them.. they are not causing mayhem....come on, after al lthey only donated $5,0000 to the FARC, what is the big deal, per Desi,? I mean the FARC can produce home made land mines for $6 each and those $5K only pays for 833 mines, which have probably only maimed about 50 soldiers and civilians, but come on they are only bored and misguided kids, so like desi says, let's cut them a break.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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romy says on Sep 21, 2008, 22:46:

compared to millions from drug trade/kidnappings/donations/extortions... hmmmm

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Cheers Terry says on Sep 21, 2008, 22:52:

Funny thread.

Cheers,
Terry

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 22, 2008, 03:12:

I prefer to think that they bought food to keep the hostages alive with the money. Or medicines for leischmaniasis...or paludismo.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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JGD says on Sep 22, 2008, 05:24:

Desi said, "prefer to think that they bought food to keep the hostages alive with the money. Or medicines for leischmaniasis...or paludismo."

I honestly don`t think Freedom and Fighthers gave that money to FARC as a "specific-destination Grant" Desi.

Panties not best thing on earth, but next to best thing on earth.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 22, 2008, 05:29:

No, they didn't. But since we're speculating the use those few dollars were put to....perhaps they should have earmarked them for humanitarian purposes. Would the FARC have respected their requested destination for the money?....Nah.....

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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billyb says on Sep 22, 2008, 06:12:

Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 22, 2008, 03:12 (today): flag

"I prefer to think that they bought food to keep the hostages alive with the money. Or medicines for leischmaniasis...or paludismo"

Yes, you prefer to think of them as regular little saints? what a shocker

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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TobyBoy says on Sep 22, 2008, 08:33:

I have spoken to some of these vile individuals in Copenhagen. They are arrogant, self-centered and VERY ignorant ADULTS that know exactly what they are doing. They are NOT kids at all!

In their ignorance, they think Colombia is some kind of downtrodden nation and bundle the FARC right along with Hezbollah, not because they are too ignorant, but because they are actually getting funding from the FARC, etc., to promulgate the insidious disinformation about Colombia, and its very popular president. The T-Shirt sales are just a cover, their real venom is their marketing campaign in Europe against the legitimate institutions of Colombia.

These “kids” as some of you call them, should be made to attend the funerals of all the innocent victims of the FARC (some who have even been butchred inside churches), and made to live with the desplazados for a few years; they are criminal terrorist enablers!

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JGD says on Sep 22, 2008, 09:35:

yes Desi, the use of those funds is speculation (... ANNCOL reports that FARC paid for a library ... probably a new target for their rocket propel granades !!)
However, those kid`s action is WRONG from any point of view (except FARC`s of course)

If you gave $ to a terrorist group, what do you think they would use it for? ...

If you gave $ to junkie, what do you think they would use it for?

Panties not best thing on earth, but next to best thing on earth.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Sep 22, 2008, 10:05:

Everyone - If you don't agree with Desi on this subject, that's fine, but don't pile on with insults or questioning her credibility in other, less controversial areas. Thank you.

I wanted access to health care, housing and education, but, no, I get potholes, trash and silicone tits instead. -Desi.

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billyb says on Sep 22, 2008, 10:12:

"compared to millions from drug trade/kidnappings/donations/extortions... hmmmm"

Romy, one victim is enough for me, how many have to suffer before it registers for you?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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romy says on Sep 22, 2008, 10:28:

Oh it registered a long time ago, 1 is more than enough... but why have the falsos positivos not registered for you? under who's command?


In regards to the kids, sure they probably don't understand what they're dealing with (most people on this forum don't know either)...but probably a more worthwhile battle is the one that should be taken onto drug consumers (or legislation making cocaine such a profitable commodity) instead of these kids.

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billyb says on Sep 22, 2008, 11:01:

"but why have the falsos positivos not registered for you? under who's command?"

And that has to do with a thread about danish morons supporting terrorism in Colombia because........??

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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romy says on Sep 22, 2008, 11:08:

it was a side note in response to your argument. And I know you understood that or did you not see the paragraph below that line?

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MaFe says on Sep 22, 2008, 11:11:

No one is insulting Desi...they are simpley stating facts..just because people disapprove of what she is saying should not be confused with an insult!

Rocinante...estoy 100% with u on this..

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

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romy says on Sep 22, 2008, 11:26:

Rocinante it was completely unnecessary, if you don't like someone's point of view you can argue against it or ignore it. simple as that. Everyone can make up their own mind. you don't need to be chief editor for this forum.

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kalder says on Sep 22, 2008, 12:27:

I'm quite sure there are elements of idealism and good faith in fringe leftist groups, but when their apologists bang on about it, I wonder if they've actually met any of these people. In my experience, youthful radicals have a heap more hate, spite and psycho-emotional dysfunction in their make up than love of their fellow man. The history of the radical left is all about dangerously angry and insecure young people latching on to a faciley 'noble' causes, so as to give vent to their tantrums and fantasies.

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romy says on Sep 22, 2008, 14:09:

I know many Colombians that would take a critical stance like Desideria did, rather than judging the situation superficially like others have done.
what is 'Colombian opinion'? obviously you don't understand the diversity of this country.
You can be as harsh as you desire on anyone that is being discussed, but nobody was discussing Desideria is the point. If you have issues with her, take it up personally but this is not the place. be nice says the monkey! and have a drink says romy.

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romy says on Sep 22, 2008, 14:32:

rocinante says on Sep 22, 2008, 09:58 (today): flag

These are not kids - they are adults. Only a few thousand dollars would have been much more had they been allowed to go on before getting busted for crimes in aiding terrorists. To look at this as a childish prank is foolish and nothing short of support for the wrong side.
___________________________________________________________________________________

looking at what you had problems with I'm not sure what we are going to survey...
when do people consider someone to become an adult? that seems pretty irrelevant...
or the importance of the act? that's just a waste of time asking people if they think a few thousand makes a difference compared to the major revenue sources that add up to millions for FARC, including brands like chiquita.

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billyb says on Sep 22, 2008, 15:06:

"that's just a waste of time asking people if they think a few thousand makes a difference compared to the major revenue sources that add up to millions for FARC, including brands like chiquita"

A few thousand dollars can enable the FARC to produce a few hundred land mines. How does that not make a DIFFERENCE? Specially if it's you or your child that steps on one.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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romy says on Sep 22, 2008, 15:09:

So what do you suppose attributes to the 90% of disinformation you claim? RCN?

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billyb says on Sep 22, 2008, 15:10:

"So what do you suppose attributes to the 90% of disinformation you claim? RCN?"

or ANNCOL, or maybe your favorite source, Telesur?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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romy says on Sep 22, 2008, 15:12:

that was directed at rocinante...

BB have you knowledge of statistics?

I see you edited... falling back to your false accusations... btw, my favourite news source is Calgary Herald but just because they've featured me a few times

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billyb says on Sep 22, 2008, 15:31:

So romy I see your evading, so I'll ask again, how does a few hundred land mines not make a difference?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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billyb says on Sep 22, 2008, 15:45:

true. And my point to romy is that just one would have been too many.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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manINred says on Sep 22, 2008, 18:01:

Look, I don't like leftie-bashing, nor do I like labelling as such. There are several liberal ideologies that Latin America needs to adhere to, and indeed in Bolivia and Ecuador are adhereing to, that overall will probably improve the quality of life for all citizens there.

Is that ideology appropriate for Colombia at the moment? No. Uribe is appropriate, and has had great success in tackling paramilitary forces and guerrilla forces and securing large regions of the country.

Neo-liberalism (righty-stances) have barely ever worked for Latin America. Time will tell as to whether it will work in Colombia. Let's hope so.

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manINred says on Sep 22, 2008, 18:04:

Staying on topic, these Danish prats undermined everything that Uribe and Colombia has been working towards: the delegitimization of the FARC and the eventual peace and security that Colombia deserves.

What if they had adorned swazticas and sent money to facist skinhead organizations? Would any western or european groups condone their behaviour then? Or dilute the seriousness of their crime? NO!!!! It is therefore out of touch and hypocritical to administer any type of leniance in addressing their crime now.

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juli says on Sep 23, 2008, 07:53:

"Juli, what does the Danish kids selling t-shirts have to with being or not "in touch" with Colombia? No, I'm not looking out of a window in a Medellín high-rise, but I may have a wider experience over a much longer span of time on Colombia as a whole than you yourself. " desi

Danish kids selling t-shirts has nothing to do with you being out of touch with Colombia. But your opinions about such matters do. I think Roci spelled it out quite clearly.

So your age and Colombian vacations superscedes my country of birth, my residence, my people, my culture and my genetics? Sobre todo!

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romy says on Sep 23, 2008, 08:50:

BB- it's called statistics, run the analysis... no significant difference, let me know how you get other results.

rocinante- Where are you getting these numbers from? while it's possible that 90% of Colombians are anti-farc... I would venture to say more are disinformed and that's a sad reality of how information is manipulated, but that's not just Colombia, all over the world. Are you the exception? maybe you are the owner of all truths...

and again you miss the point

btw, it was you that said "These are not kids - they are adults." I would not waste my time arguing such things.

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pobrecito says on Sep 23, 2008, 09:06:

biilyb said to romy:

""So what do you suppose attributes to the 90% of disinformation you claim? RCN?"

or ANNCOL, or maybe your favorite source, Telesur?"


Billyb, in another post, you said that you wrote things more intelligent than I did.
Are you sure that your comment is intelligent?

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La_Huella says on Sep 23, 2008, 09:07:

Tinto, I have to call bullshit on you.

Why don't you take a good long hard look at this thread.

Somebody started the post simply pointing out the article and saying "about time too". A few posters chimed in agreeing with them. Desi chimed in not agreeing and defending the kids. People responded APPROPRIATELY attacking her POINT OF VIEW, well within the rules.

What happens then? SHE jumps in PERSONALLY insulting me and others, breaking her OWN rules.

Now continue on, not one single time in this thread has anybody PERSONALLY attacked Desi, not even in her own response to crossing the line. What they have said is that in their own opinions she has no credibility, no objectivity, and lacks a sense of perspective regarding Colombia, which I think is more than reasonable. Actually I think it's blatantly obvious.

I think for example Juli has shown remarkable restraint in not flaming Desi, despite having good reason to considering the insult she was subjected to. I think Desi's positions, while ridiculous to myself and others, are positions that should be respected as a legitimate persons opinion, but subject to the same scrutiny as anybody else's. And I think it is HIGHLY inappropriate to tell people to back off of her when all they are doing is attacking her IDEAS.

If you take a controversial and unpopular position on an internet forum, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to have to defend said position.

It seems to me that ONLY people living in the exterior could possibly support something as heinous as giving money to the FARC (however small). And yes, for me and most of us here it shows a lack of connectedness with the Colombia of today, September, 2008.

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pobrecito says on Sep 23, 2008, 09:13:

These rightwing nuts do not tolerate that Desi gets a different opinion than their.
They insult her the whole day.
More they are liars and say they do not insult her.
Nobody can trust them.

If Desi said that Uribe is her God anf if she named her contracditors FARC, la Huella would say she is a good mod.

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pobrecito says on Sep 23, 2008, 09:14:

Are the rightwing nuts trying to make a "coup d'etat" her by hunting non-uribists?

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romy says on Sep 23, 2008, 09:16:

La Huella- it's about obtaining a certain balance, nobody gave absolute support or even legitimized what the Danes did. The world is not black and white. And that's what you don't understand...

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billyb says on Sep 23, 2008, 10:07:

"BB- it's called statistics, run the analysis... no significant difference, let me know how you get other results"

Romy, you can run all the analysis and sift through all the statistics you like, but that won't be a suitable substitute for having common sense enought to know that just one person being blown up, or one poor campseino's mule being maimed by just one mine DOES make a difference, if to nodody else, to the victim.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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billyb says on Sep 23, 2008, 10:09:

"Billyb, in another post, you said that you wrote things more intelligent than I did."

To be accurate, i didn't write that I post more intelligent things than you, although that is obvoius as well, I wrote that you have not yet posted anything intelligent, and nothing you posted today changes that fact.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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La_Huella says on Sep 23, 2008, 10:24:

The two of you need to grow up and also learn to read. I have already said one time that I'm not an Uribist nor ever do intend to be one. I don't like cults of personality, ESPECIALLY around heads of state. I think they are unhealthy. I also don't particularly like a lot of Uribe's philosophy.

This thread has NOTHING to do with Uribe, except by your warped definition.

Not only that, I just said THREE POSTS AGO that I believe everybody INCLUDING Desi should have the right to express their legitimate opinion. It is her PERSONAL ATTACKS of other posters I have a problem with, NOT her opinion as such. I believe her opinion is wrong, and should be vigorously debated WITHOUT getting personal on EITHER side.

What YOU guys don't seem to understand is that somebody can support Uribe vs the FARC and NOT support him on other issues. Or that one can be equally disgusted by the FARC AND by the paras and simply be in favor of due process and proper channels. OR perhaps most importantly that those channels are now VALID in Colombia, that Colombia is NOT the same arch-conservative classist impoverished backwater it was in the 1960s, and the time for violent anti-government action is now OVER.

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La_Huella says on Sep 23, 2008, 10:47:

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.....................

I said the NEED for violent action is over. In other words, the FARC has no good reason to exist anymore and NO LEGITIMACY.

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romy says on Sep 23, 2008, 10:52:

Rocinante-
Why would I be arguing if people thought the earth was round? perhaps my response was devious, but I thought you would get the point, I mean for a person that is trying to demonstrate superiority in the concepts of "hypotheitcal", "Hyperbole" and "analogy"
it was a cheap shot if you didn't get it, I'm sorry.
It is however, hard to take you seriously (even in figurative language), when you use a figure like 90% because of the implications of that figure that you may or not be aware. That's what I was getting to with my response.

also, I didn't know kids were of lower significance than adults... I must not have that ageism. Perhaps, because I'm still a kid in the eyes of many people, but at no time would I expect to be tried any differently than an older (or younger) individual.


BB-
You still need to grasp the concept of relativity. I was making a monetary comparison to the millions that FARC has access to. But when looking at human life, of course it makes a difference. However, that was never part of the discussion, nor is there any information to back up your implications that this money could be used for ### land mines. Obviously the Danes need to pay for their crime, but the amount of scandal that is being made here about this and towards someone that tried to rationalize this is unjustifiable. There are bigger fish, that people are afraid to go after, which is my point. For instance, if it was so clear that Chavez was giving money to FARC when Pandora's Box came out, why hasn't this been taken to the appropriate court? Surely, if Chavez was helping FARC out it was with more than a few thousand... now think of all the landmines they would be using this money on... get real, what is it with conservatives and scapegoats

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La_Huella says on Sep 23, 2008, 11:58:

I agree, why doesn't somebody drop Chavez in boiling oil already? I'm sure more than half his own country would gladly do it by now!

What other fish should we go after? As far as I'm concerned they should go after BOTH the paras and the FARC with equal vigor. You know what the difference is? The paras are by and large willing to disarm, and the FARC aren't.

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billyb says on Sep 23, 2008, 12:16:

"But when looking at human life, of course it makes a difference. However, that was never part of the discussion"

That was always central to my discussion, I see people as individuals and not statistics.Romy, you might have had point were you not so confused and assumed that we would like to see that 'miniscule" source of funding for the FARC terminated to the exclusion of all other efforts to stop their sources funds, but since we are not and would like to see ALL funding to these terrorists stopped, you argument that it is not important holds no water.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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romy says on Sep 23, 2008, 12:48:

I believe you entered the discussion saying

"I've got a "noble cause" for them, get a FOKIN job."

which doesn't take issue at FARC or the loss of life, merely attacks the individuals selling the shirts for being slackers, not even for their sponsoring of FARC.

I wasn't referring to people as statistics, I'm not sure why you're still confused there.

Maybe if I saw you take concern at the issues involved with drug trafficking, which is fueling this NEVER-ENDING conflict (despite what Uribe is saying these days in the US) then I'd take your 'noble' concern for human life more seriously. Afterall, this t-shirt funding is now gone, but FARC remains unbruised

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pobrecito says on Sep 23, 2008, 13:14:

"To be accurate, i didn't write that I post more intelligent things than you, although that is obvoius as well, I wrote that you have not yet posted anything intelligent, and nothing you posted today changes that fact."

I think that it is a monologue and that you are speaking to yourself.
The beginning of your self-criticism?

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billyb says on Sep 23, 2008, 13:16:

Pobre, go take a nap.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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billyb says on Sep 23, 2008, 13:17:

romy says on Sep 23, 2008, 12:48 (today): flag

I believe you entered the discussion saying

"I've got a "noble cause" for them, get a FOKIN job."


I hadn't begun my discussion, that was merely an observation, but a clever boy as yourself should have known that.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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pobrecito says on Sep 23, 2008, 13:19:

"Pobre, go take a nap"
Another intelligent comment ....

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pobrecito says on Sep 23, 2008, 13:22:

"I hadn't begun my discussion, that was merely an observation, but a clever boy as yourself should have known that."
An intelligent comment ...

I am going to end up thinking that Tasco66 was a great intellectual ...

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Sep 23, 2008, 13:41:

Buggy - Read the rules. You are free to challenge a post on its merits, but you are not free to follow a couple of people around the board and repeatedly insert one-line comments about their intelligence.

==============

Personal attacks

Attacking someone's argument is accepted, even encouraged. Attacking the person who made the argument is unnecessary and not allowed.

Examples:

* Harassing or stalking someone.
* Calling someone names ("You're such an idiot").

==============

I wanted access to health care, housing and education, but, no, I get potholes, trash and silicone tits instead. -Desi.

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pobrecito says on Sep 23, 2008, 13:45:

Tinto, why did'nt you make the same remark to billyb who, in several posts, wrote that I am not intelligent ?

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romy says on Sep 23, 2008, 15:36:

metaphor is interpreted subjectively. besides, It's your interpretation to look at kids as lower than adults, not mine... and you are pretending to know Desideria's intentions, I'm not sure what qualifies you to do that, I doubt even a psychologist would venture there.
I took issue with you because you brought up the "hot water"... I didn't notice anyone else get personal with Desideria, which was my concern. Other people "belittled" the crime according to your definition and I didn't see you take issue with them... why? Everyone has the right to their opinions, which I believe we already agreed to, and you went out of your way to discredit someone for alterior reasons than the topic at stake.

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romy says on Sep 23, 2008, 22:29:

You are arguing an interpretation of someone's words... does that make sense to you?

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romy says on Sep 24, 2008, 09:08:

maybe it's in your psychology manual? I couldn't find it in the lay dictionary...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kids
Main Entry:
1kid Listen to the pronunciation of 1kid
Pronunciation:
\ˈkid\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English kide, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Norse kith kid
Date:
13th century

1 a: a young goat b: a young individual of various animals related to the goat2 a: the flesh, fur, or skin of a kid b: something made of kid3: a young person ; especially : child —often used as a generalized reference to one especially younger or less experienced

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ranaquajo says on Jan 28, 2010, 18:50:

... i could swear that this thread was bumped by cara de mono last night ... yet i see no comment .......

....... wtf did you say monkeyface ?

... nihil declaro .....

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cara_de_mono says on Jan 29, 2010, 12:56:

I simply said I would be embarrassed to be supported by these people if I was Moderator Desideria.

The Feeble Few flageth, and the Moderators taketh away ...

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 29, 2010, 13:27:

I don't think there's any necessity to resuscitate an old thread just to challende a moderator. You sound like a man with a mission, caremico.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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cara_de_mono says on Jan 29, 2010, 22:34:

I did not resuscitate it of course. If you read and followed every thread like Moderators should you would see that this was cited in another post. I read this thread and made a comment.

It is an embarrassment.

The Feeble Few flageth, and the Moderators taketh away ...

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billyb says on Jan 29, 2010, 22:56:

Come on Mono, we all know that, although somewhat misguided, these Danish "kids' are just expressing their "noble' kinship with terrorists, although pooh poohed as irrelevant gestures by desi, romy and et al, that 2 thousand dollars they raised for the FARC is enough for the FARC to build approx 333 land mines. Mines that will not kill one single North Bogota Elite, but mines that will kill several campesinos plowing their fields, a few of their children playing in the local soccer field in any village in Colombia, unaware that their FARC "protectors" had mined it, or more than a few poor animals of burden, ignorant of the human conflict that surrounds them. But, alas, these are only kids following their "noble" , if somewhat bored, instincts, right desi?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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ranaquajo says on Jan 30, 2010, 07:00:

i try to stay away from the political threads ... for various reasons ..... but this thread reminds me of one of my favorite political quotes ...

... before i get to the quote, let me state:

● i did not follow this situation in the news and know nothing more about it than is reported in the linked article and the comments made here

● i know that the thread is incomplete due to deleted comments at the time and members that have moved on, taking their comments with them

● at the risk of being seen as a Desi defender ( heaven forbid ) ... i see no direct statement of support for the FARC from Moderator Desideria

● i think the first comment/opinion in this thread from Moderator Desideria expresses/summarizes the opinion of the Danish courts seeing as those found guilty were sentenced to only six months out of a possible ten years

... now, with that said:

"If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."

... nihil declaro .....

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cara_de_mono says on Jan 30, 2010, 12:51:

And if you are still liberal by the time you are 50, you never had either.

The Feeble Few flageth, and the Moderators taketh away ...

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 30, 2010, 14:20:

Yes, I was just trying to explain how the courts and indeed, most people, up here would see that incident. They don't have the burden of hurt and suffering that many Colombians have, when their families have been directly affected; they would see this from an ideological viewpoint and also since being a communist or a socialist has never been deemed to be a crime in these countries, even as you get older:)

Caremico, I don't read all the comments or even look into every thread. No one of us does. There's a flagging feature you can use if you see something that need my/our attention.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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cara_de_mono says on Jan 30, 2010, 16:01:

And I do believe it has been shown several times how and why the flag feature does not work.

If I can sit here an hour or so each night and get caught up on every thread on the first page I am sure you learned people can too.

The Feeble Few flageth, and the Moderators taketh away ...

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cara_de_mono says on Jan 30, 2010, 16:04:

I once knew a newspaper editor of a fairly large periodical which consistently had errors every week. He was eventually fired for his subpar product. He was a very intelligent person (Harvard grad with a BA in English). After his termination we spoke. After a short discussion I asked him why his paper constantly had errors with his background. He looked extremely surprised and taken aback and said something along the lines of, "Well I cannot read every article!"

I then said, "Well your customers do."

The Feeble Few flageth, and the Moderators taketh away ...

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MaBarker says on Jan 31, 2010, 16:14:

CdM's comment above makes me feel humbled because I can't write that well of a response and proud to read a worthy comment for a change.

Mods, we should have a 'Comments of Distinction' forum so we can savor these kinds of responses in the future.

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