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I have a question, why do these men have to go to other country for a woman

What's wrong with the women that are here? why do you have to travel so far away to get a woman? and how come they don't have websites for females? maybe we don't like the men that are here and we can go and find a man in another county
just a simple question

By sweetg30 on Dec 14, 2006, 13:49 in Friendly Talkzone.


ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Dec 14, 2006, 14:34:

Don't generalize I thought you had already addressed this topic in another thread.

First of all...

What do you care how someone meets their wife? How does it affect you in the least? What right do you have to criticize these men and women for looking for a foreign spouse?

Second...

Many men(myself included) do not wish to marry an American women for many reasons. Now my case is a little different in that I am a Colombian who was born and reared in the US. I wanted to find a good, traditional Colombian woman. I did not find her through a marriage agency, but I wouldn't see anything wrong with it. I have the advantage of having lots of family in Colombia and I have been a million times since I was a baby. Some others don't have these opportunities and must resort to marriage agencies.

However, American or European men AND women have the right to choose anyone they want as their spouse. Based on one of your posts, you state that you are married to an American man. You perceive this to be OK for you, yet you call other Colombian women who want an American man the equivalent of mail order visa whores. While I'm sure a certain percentage of these women are looking for a way out of Colombia, for you to generalize is as insulting to women as the posts that you criticize on this site.

You have a right to your opinion, but you have no right to judge others for their life choices. You have made your opinion very clear. How about giving it a rest now?

I'm so hip, I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.

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njtea5 says on Dec 14, 2006, 15:05:

What does it matter.. Last time I checked there was plenty of American Men married to American Women... Its true what is it to you where some one finds their wife.. Facts are Facts Colombian Women are hotter and take better care of thier men... Like mi mama!!! Love you mommy...

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jay1234 says on Dec 14, 2006, 16:31:

I am guessing it is the money I imagine that if there was money to be made from a gringa looking for love in Latin America website, then there would be some...or thousands. No money to be made = no websites. I wonder how the percentages of American women looking overseas vs. men stacks up. I am (again) guessing it is disproportionately males who look overseas. I guess you could start your own site and find out...
Strobers, I am sensing that you have a crush on her. Don't hide your true feelings, jajaja.

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famsearch says on Dec 14, 2006, 16:52:

all i know... ...is that i may be one of the rare ones, i didn't go looking, it just happened. =)
dan

dan

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goin_south says on Dec 14, 2006, 17:12:

I think we're trying to avoid women like you,... sweetg. (Except of course,....for strobers.)(But don't make him a sandwich; make him an arepa con queso!)

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Dec 14, 2006, 17:18:

We go to Colombia, because.... you know, sometimes you just have to get out of the house ;)

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 14, 2006, 17:50:

I thought the topic of US vs Colombian women was taboo!!?? Every time on PBH i made comments including about 100 ways the Colombiana is better than the US variety, it gets **deleted**.....maybe we can get a "ruling" from a moderator.....i am sure that some interesting "input" would be forthcoming....i can only speak for the local California women, but i believe Golddigging 101 is taught at a very early age, maybe 10 or 12 years of age????? =)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 14, 2006, 17:59:

my feelings are so hurt You're trying to avoid women like me? well I was born and raised in Barranquilla-Colombia until the age of 19, that's when I came here, So I guess I'm damaged good lol, why you get so agitated i just asked a simple question because I want to find out what's so especial about these ladies. Anyway I cook only when I feel like it and today it's not my husbands lucky day, maybe next time. I'm a bad evil woman and I think you have more time in your hands then I do, why you keep on answering? just ignore me

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sweetg30 says on Dec 14, 2006, 18:02:

How about I make you a sandwich but with special ingredients, would you like that?

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TioJoe says on Dec 14, 2006, 18:16:

Divorce When I married 15 years ago civil divorce was not allowed in Colombia only separation. This was a major consideration since a very common refrain from many american women I dated was "If it doesn't work out we could always get a divorce". The inequality to dissolve a marriage in the USA was also a painfull recent reminder of why ANY american wife was not an option. SweetG - I met my wife the old fashioned way before the websites but there is a simple answer to your question why there are no websites offering american women as foreign brides. The truth is in the foreign countries I have visited american women are just not held in very high regard. Sorry gentlemen -- civil divorce is now allowed in Colombia -- they changed the constitution right after I married so be nice.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 14, 2006, 18:27:

Shit, TJ, the american woman is regarded the same in the US... IMVHO......=)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Swinn88 says on Dec 14, 2006, 18:31:

SweetG because no one else wants to answer your question and they prefer to leave tire tracks across your body because you offended them(I don't know how but i'm used to it at PBH now). There is nothing wrong with the women where you are, and far less men seek women in other places than you may think. Most people at PBH I believe, but i'm not sure have come upon there significant others in the normal way. Some have visited Colombia for whatever reason and loved it. If you love a place you are bound to love it's people. As for hotness yes there are some very hot colombians however I have seen some very ugly ones also(no one at this site would ever admit to that statement). Generally speaking I personally can't say that colombians are hotter nor Americans hotter because I have met some very hot!! Hotties in both places(and no! the Hotties here were not Colombians). Sometimes you venture off. It's kind of like asking a white girl why she's with a black guy. Unless they have very strong feelings against it then it is quite possible that they can fall for a guy, be he from Africa, colombia, canada or wherever. I personally welcome all types of women be they a different color, ethnicity, or country. As far as websites for women seeking men i'm sure there is something out there. You just have to look. Dating services are all over the Net in all languages. PBH members give people a break and stop ganging up on them. It's the internet for goodness sake and written words very often are misunderstood. I dont's think SweetG meant to offend anyone.

By the way the hottest woman I have ever met in my life was from the philippines. Also the ugliest women I have ever met was also from the Philippines.

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aztec says on Dec 14, 2006, 18:35:

Simple... ...the Colombian people are on average the most beautiful on earth. On the other side of the mirror one would find the beautiful Scandinavian people.

All the rest of us fall somewhere below those standards.


Now how is that for an opinionated response to the question posed by sweetg30?

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Swinn88 says on Dec 14, 2006, 18:36:

ok!
maybe she did mean to ok!
maybe she did mean to offend. Naw I don't believe that I think she's just offnded that she was attacked so harshly. Mario Great explanation as to why you are with a colombian. I know many that feel like you. Good luck and I hoep everthing eventually works out.

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Swinn88 says on Dec 14, 2006, 18:38:

Some hotties but I wouldnt say on average they are the hottest.

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Plato says on Dec 14, 2006, 19:49:

It sounds like a troll question to me - sweetg30's.

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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elchantajista says on Dec 14, 2006, 19:49:

misconception People think that ;the bottom of the barrel or guys who can't get nothing in the EE UU are the reason we go to Colombia I THINK NOT, I think u have to make good money to even afford to go there on a regular basis, thereby if u have money lets face it women are not really a problem, I go there because it's a challange for one thing, the women are not a shame of thier sexaulity, they r not afraid to be women they r wild unspoiled and agressive in bed, a Agentina asked me why do i waste my time going to Colombia, for the record, I WANT TO GO TO COLOMBIA not because i have to,it's my life and and i don't care about all the put downs , nothing against u sweet30 it's just people seem to worry about it,for the record I like women in thier mid 30"s I know a Colombiana that is 34 she could compete in the "hottest girl on the planet" she may not win but she will in the five lol, so don't take offense sweet30 it's just what we love to do and go and that's all there is to it, I think Colombiana r like a fine wine the older they get the better they taste. tan buenisima!!!!!!!

anda de parranda en Bogota
"Vicente"

anda de parranda al Juanchito "Vicente"

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sweetg30 says on Dec 14, 2006, 20:05:

I live under a bridge in Queens N.Y.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 14, 2006, 20:10:

Strobers Yeah sit down and wait for it, and I don't care if I u forgive me or not. pa lo que a mi me importa

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goin_south says on Dec 14, 2006, 23:01:

organic mayonaise. ???? strobers! You're killin' me, dude!

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Dec 14, 2006, 23:10:

ELCHANTAJISTA! My sentiments, exactly! I couldn't have said it better. (I knew if I waited long enough, someone would re-iterate my thoughts in writing.) I jus didn't expect it to be a freakin COON-ASS ;)

As I said earlier, sometimes we just got to get outta the house, and rather than going downtown.... VA A COLOMBIA! VIVE COLOMBIA Y TODOS COSAS BUENAS COLOMBIA! Y, ESPECIALAMENTE, LAS MUJERES DE COLOMBIA!

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Dec 14, 2006, 23:14:

"I live under a bridge in Queens, N.Y.' C?... Sweetg30 = Elmo. He's always claiming to be livin under a bridge. Miami, Queens.... do they have any bridges in Barranquilla?

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 15, 2006, 05:52:

How about a pic, Sweetg? Then we'll tell you how sweet you really are.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 15, 2006, 05:56:

No Galecito, They don't have any bridges in barranquilla or Colombia, poor us, that's why I moved over here so I could live under a bridge, lol!smarta** and I'm not elmo i wish i could talk to him, too bad you guys couldn't deal with him. i read some of his stuff and it was pretty darn funny. Some of you guys sometimes take things too personally

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sweetg30 says on Dec 15, 2006, 05:59:

utopiacowboy no I don't give pic's to people i don't know My dating days are over, That was then and I used to have many pic's in my profile and used to got a lot a lot of responses, until my americanized beautiful a** met my lovely husband, he is a real man and knows how to deal with my sweet self.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 15, 2006, 06:00:

Elmo was run off by the feminazis in their never-ending attempts to censor free expression. He has gone underground and is leading the fight for freedom from tyranny and overflowing toilets.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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gringolondinense says on Dec 15, 2006, 06:25:

We have to join forces with our friends, to fight the detergents. We must bring an end to evil and violins.

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JR says on Dec 15, 2006, 11:27:

Sweet G 30 here's your answer: Recently a "Husband Super Store" opened in the USA where women could go to choose a husband from among many men. It was laid out over five floors, with the men increasing in positive attributes as you ascended.

The only rule was, once you opened the door to any floor, you HAD to choose a man from that floor; if you went up a floor, you couldn't go back down except to leave the place, never to return.

A couple of girlfriends went to the shopping centre to find some husbands.

First floor
The door had a sign saying, "These men have jobs and love kids."
The women read the sign and said, "Well, that's better than not having a job or not loving kids, but I wonder what's further up?" So up they went.

Second floor
The sign read, "These men have high paying jobs, love kids, and are extremely good looking."
"Hmmm," said the ladies, "But, I wonder what's further up?"

Third floor
This sign read, "These men have high paying jobs, are extremely good looking, love kids and help with the housework."
"Wow," said the women, "Very tempting." But there was another floor, so further up they went."

Fourth floor
This door had a sign saying "These men have high paying jobs, love kids, are extremely good looking, help with the housework and have a strong romantic streak."
"Oh, mercy me," they cried, "Just think what must be awaiting us further on!"

So up to the fifth floor they went.

Fifth floor
The sign on that door said, "This floor is empty and exists only to prove that women from the USA are f**king impossible to please.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 15, 2006, 11:36:

JR,,that joke is making the email rounds again....=) i got it last week for the umpteenth time....but very true!

have you seen the Wife Store version?...it is just as hilarious!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Boatygringo says on Dec 15, 2006, 12:51:

Question Being kind of aged impaired if I didn't go to Colombia I would't be able to enjoy the company of 20 something year old chicas. Boatygringo

Boatygringo

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alleycat says on Dec 15, 2006, 13:07:

it's usually because they can get a more attractive woman in colombia. not always but this is the main reason. supply and demand. the women who they desire in the u.s. don't find most of these guys very attractive. we'll consider 3 factors in a man's attractiveness; looks, personality, and money. let's also throw in age. there's a fairly strong cultural bias in the u.s. for men and women to connect with someone around their own age. most hot 20 something women won't even consider seriously hanging with someone twice their age. a 55 year old guy can go to colombia and connect with someone half his age. whether it works when they come back is another matter but at least he'll delude himself into thinking it will work. but discrepancies in attractiveness usually don't work. how many couples do you really see in everyday life where one partner is unattractive and the other a stunner? men go to colombia believing they can do better.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 15, 2006, 13:17:

And that is your business and no one elses, BG! so continue living your life as you want to live it...hell, alleycat, in the Golddigging Capital of California, to a 20-something girl here, a 30 year old man is over the hill!!!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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TioJoe says on Dec 15, 2006, 14:26:

Deluded Alleycat you have truely made some valid points regarding money, looks and personality when us old men date young american women with age often being the determining factor. I found the same priorities in Colombia on my first visit but reversed in importance personality, looks and money with age not the deal breaker it is in the USA. I may have been one of those unattractive gentlemen that married a "hot 20 something woman" half his age that you have casually destined to fail. Still suffering the consequence of delusional passion as she kisses my bald head after these many years and yes I know many other similar "old is ugly" men equally as happy.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 15, 2006, 14:28:

I'm 85 and still quite happy with the high-quality inflatable doll (Monica Belluci model) that I imported. I forget what I'm supposed to do with her but she makes a nice squeaky sound when I rub her.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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timeforachangeofscenery says on Dec 15, 2006, 14:47:

Stop trying to understand me! To all the overly sensitive, indignant clowns who turn bright red every time some bored house-wife with too much spare time and unsupervised access to a p.c. questions one of their life choices, listen up.
There's a great big truckload of personal choices, emotions, idiosyncracies and other unfathomable motivations working together in concert to make a man do the things he does. Why does everything have to have a defendable, logical explanation ? Hell - some stuff gets done just because the guy doing it wants to know what's gunna happen next. Life isn't a box of chocolates baby.....it's your own personal adventure movie you make up as you go along.
SweetG, I went to Colombia because travelling is one of the things I do!! I dated a Colombian woman because as far as I know, there's no law against it. I married her because I love her and want to spend the rest of my life sharing my adventure with the funniest, sweetest, most caring woman in the world. I don't date american chicks cos as far as I'm aware, I'm not required to. - Thanks for listening.

Nena - I will spend my whole life through, loving you.....just loving you (K) ;)

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aztec says on Dec 15, 2006, 14:50:

Damn good post Thanks for sharing timefor.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 15, 2006, 14:53:

If she's that bored maybe she could help me with my Pre-Cal. I wonder if she's a MILF?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Dec 15, 2006, 15:02:

I THINK I can also answer that question There's a lot of guys that were caught in the time warp. With the empowerment of the modern woman in all "western" societies our men found out that they had had the rug pulled out from under their feet. Everything that they had been taught to believe in suddenly didn't make sense. They lost the sense of purpose, the sense of what it takes being a man since the values that they were taught by their fathers and mothers were not valid any longer. It wasn't a good thing any longer to be the protector, the breadwinner, the support and the head of the family; the new male role model was the equal male, the partner, the friend, the soul mate. This became too much of a challenge for some men, The ones who have no problem with the new set of values are the sons of my generation; they are in their twenties and getting into their thirties now and have no problem with the equal, empowered woman as their partner. They have been raised up to be equal and think of women on equal terms.

The extreme feminists went much too far seeking to bring justice and fairness but they believed that this could be achieved by being aggressive and hostile and putting down their men; a big mistake in my book. What they achieved instead was a counter reaction, the raunch culture and the serious backlash from men who felt that they had been wronged.

What we have here now is a group of men who go to countries where they hope to find good old fifties-type of housewifely values; the safe female that does not fight her man. The female that has her man as the main focal point in her life, more important than her children, her career, her friends, her family, The stereotypical Ruth of the Bible: "and I will follow you wherever you go and your people will be my people and your God will be my God".

Cheers,
Desi

«Sé que los seres humanos y los peces podrán coexistir en paz». ( George W. Bush, Saginaw 29-09-00)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 15, 2006, 15:05:

Was Ruth of the Bible a MILF? If she was, then, yeah, I could handle that.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Dec 15, 2006, 15:11:

sorry, UC? don't know what you mean. I not quite as slick as you.

Cheers,
Desi

«Sé que los seres humanos y los peces podrán coexistir en paz». ( George W. Bush, Saginaw 29-09-00)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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TioJoe says on Dec 15, 2006, 15:42:

Cheers Desi Drinking anchient age bourbon as I try to remember how old I am. Your point was expressed well however do you truely believe all us elderly gents are equality challenged? I am retired and my colombian wife has a carreer as an occupational therapist in Florida. She lovingly refers to me as her lifetime pension check while I think of her as my big paycheck. Seeking old fashioned values is a stretch in our relationship -- role reversal -- I clean the house and cook now however I did draw the line when she asked me to meet her at the front door after a hard day at the office butt naked and in high heels. We old men still have a little pride.

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FredGarvin says on Dec 15, 2006, 15:51:

OMG... "Seeking old fashioned values is a stretch in our relationship -- role reversal -- I clean the house and cook now however I did draw the line when she asked me to meet her at the front door after a hard day at the office butt naked and in high heels. We old men still have a little pride."

...That is friggin' hilaaaaarious, TJ....

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Dec 15, 2006, 15:55:

by no means, tio the great majority of the men of my generation have been able to adapt to the change. I do not wish to take anything away from you, least of all your pride. There are a few who have had a hard time accepting women as their partners, but they are a minority and I have no quarrel with anybody. To all you happily married Colombian/Gringo couples out there,
cheers,
Desi
«Sé que los seres humanos y los peces podrán coexistir en paz». ( George W. Bush, Saginaw 29-09-00)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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cam0940 says on Dec 15, 2006, 17:07:

That's a nice, academic analysis Desi. Of course, it's rhetoric. Even though you were critical of overzealous feminists, you are still basically attributing the phenomenon to men who can't handle change... aren't comfortable with progession... in other words, aren't comfortable in a "less dominant" role in the relationship... which misses the point entirely.

Men aren't that complicated. We do not enjoy argument or conflict for the sake of argument or conflict. We do not want life partners... someone whom we're going to share our homes, finances, children, our entire existence with... who's going to fight us every step of the way. We don't want to spend all our time with someone who has a psychotic, learned need to "prove" that they are equal in every aspect of life. We don't need someone to be in competition with us, hanging on every syllable out of our mouths, ready to pounce on us if something we say could be construed as sexist. We just want to be happy.

I'm in a competitive industry. The last place I want competition is in my home when I'm trying to relax. I want to come home, close the door, and be there with someone who's ON MY SIDE. Not an American woman who's there as long as she's on a pedestal and I'm her vassal. I don't need a woman to prove she can have a career, sacrifice what I think is valuable influence with our children, just so she can add her $32,000 to our 1040 at the end of the year. Don't worry about that. Even if it were $320,000, what would be the point? Business is good right now, and how much do you really need? If it's not about NEED, then it's about some other psychotic insecurity that WE don't need in our relationship. I don't want a woman challenging and second guessing everything I say--even my male friends don't do that. I don't want a woman conciously preserving her independence and/or individuality...that's the antithesis of marriage. I just wanted a regular, sane, secure partner with whom I could RELAX. And that's why I'm with Mrs. Cam.

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TioJoe says on Dec 15, 2006, 17:35:

whew I just wanted sex

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aztec says on Dec 15, 2006, 17:57:

cam0940, find myself agreeing... ...again with you.

I spent almost 40 years in a university community and it is replete with women who think like Desideria. Many of them are now lamenting the carnage left on the institution of marriage by this misguided philosophy.

Most of you men would be totally shocked by the content of courses in our esteemed Women Studies programs. I doubt if any of them would have the courage to publish the course listings in the local newspaper.

You will find in todays U.S. and European society men are reluctant to get married at all or at least waiting until after they are 30 or even 40 years old. Look around and discover how many women of 30 or above who are without partners and no prospects in sight.

The allegation that we men who want something different are only desperate is totally lacking in intellectual foundation. The facts are the "modern" woman as defined by the feminist is being rejected by a whole generation of men. The "liberated" women of the European and American culture are threatened by the discovery that men now have a choice.

In my own case after my wife died, before she was cold in her grave, the women came out of the wood work. They would just show up at my door. Had calls from states outside my own from women who I had never met. An older man in our culture has no problem finding a women. He just doesn't like what he sees!

In Colombia one can find a person who shares the same beliefs regarding marriage. Most of the Colombian women would prefer to remain in their own country after marriage.

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bamapits3 says on Dec 15, 2006, 18:40:

Please can I say something I have not met one guy under 30 years old in medellin, I cant speak for other places, but if you want my personal opinion, there were only a few of these guys that out of many americans that I met down there that I would even want to be seen with. The truth and the whole truth, is they cant get any play back home so they go to a country where woman like knowing security is there. I am 20 years and and because Of the job I have as of now in the middle east my vacations have allowed me to travel the world. Why do you think all these guys arent in France/Italy.......Oh ya its cause they dont like european woman, they like spanish woman, thats crap, its cause european woman have taste and wont just mess with you because your american and there is no way that they could get a 20 year old when they are 40-50 years old........I am ready to hear what everyone has to say, because if you think different your a damn lie.....Remember I said there are a few guys who can do it in miami, europe, and south america, but all the others ones think they supposed millionaire status that they have will control these lil girls minds....get real....

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aztec says on Dec 15, 2006, 19:16:

"your a damn lie", bamapits3.... ...my, my one can always tell when a worldly, sophisticated and intellectual mature person shows up. With so much life experience to share with the down trodden folks.

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TioJoe says on Dec 15, 2006, 19:22:

Bamapits They advertise it as a sex tour to the men with a cheap flight to Colombia -- 10 girls to every guy in Medellin and Cali -- Sadly that is the ratio when they visit those areas. Most of these self professed millionaires could not buy dinner or a ticket to Europe without plastic. Many american "GENTLE MEN" of all ages visit your country on a different pretext. We are all not what you perceive. In general I agree with your post but you have a narrow view of the issue however your obsevation obviously comes with experience.

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elchantajista says on Dec 15, 2006, 19:38:

u sound like a broken record BAM i'VE see a few guys that fit what u r talking about but most guy that go to Colombia, i think are just normal guys that LIKE Colombiana, and give your self a break,u need one, your cynical out look is rather odd cause one day u will be that older hombre and some young buck will be talking about u like u talking right now ,granted younger guys have it going on more than older guys but your disrespect will come back on u later on in life when u become a old hombre, get over the cynical " i'm better than u cause I'm younger" out look on life. my job takes me all over the wold also lived in different countries, i chose Colombia because i speak spanish if i spoke french or italian or german i'll probabaly choose them and they r American that live in euro, besides it's the chica that we go to see not somebody like u
so your opinion don't mean much
anda de parranda en Bogota
"Vicente"

anda de parranda al Juanchito "Vicente"

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cam0940 says on Dec 15, 2006, 19:57:

Over and over again, men have stated that they don't like what's available in their immediate area (mine being Los Angeles).

Not that they can't get a girl and therefore have to use an American passport or U.S. dollar to create an uneven playing field... we've simply stated that we didn't like what was available.

I'm 35. I have no doubt whatsoever about my ability to find a girl. It's Friday night in Los Angeles. If I wanted to meet someone I am quite confident that I could get dressed and go hook up within the next couple of hours. That's not the problem.

I don't shop at the Gap because I don't like the clothes selection. Sure I could buy, but they don't have what I'm looking for. Therefore, I go elsewhere.

I think it's painfully simple. So much so that it makes me wonder why some folks (overwhelmingly American and/or European women) continue to insist that it is something different than what we're telling you.

It's like marriage therapy. Women always want to go to marriage therapy because they assume the therapist is going to sit there and tell the husband all the things that are wrong with him. Never do they imagine that the therapist might have some suggestions for THEM. Never do they concede that maybe...perhaps...possibly...SHE could have some issues or baggage.

So when we men--who have relationships with women of other countries--cite the shortcomings of American women as a contributing factor, women stubbornly refuse to concede that they themselves might be part of the problem.

I used to call it the "Daddy's Little Girl" syndrome. Sweet little angel of a daughter is so precious, can never do any wrong, and then when she grows up she has trouble assuming responsibility for her own actions, difficulty correlating consequence to her decisions, and is typically a bona fide, Grade A blameshifter.

I'm really glad I don't have to deal with any more issued women. I know couples now where the husbands have been absolutely castrated by their wives, they're the butt of every joke, they get treated like they don't know anything... they're basically their wives' buffoons. You'll never in your life see Cam in that situation. I'm supposed to not be a man anymore because I'm married? And then every now and again, when she's in the mood, she's going to make it OK by giving me a little koo-koo? And I'm supposed to put up with all the other little bullshit in the relationship buying her shit, reading her mind, anticipating what she's thinking because she won't speak in plain language? Excuse my language but... fuck that. I'm 35, I'm getting too old for these little games. And then on top of all that, I have to wear an apron to cook dinner sometimes, wash dishes sometimes, wash clothes, take care of the kids, pay the bills, cut the grass or hire some illegals to do it, take out the trash, maintain the cars, put together bikes on Christmas...ALL this shit... just to prove that I'm comfortable with either of the traditional roles in the relationship. One question: While I'm doing all this shit, what is my WIFE supposed to be doing? I'll tell you A) Shopping B) Posted on the sofa watching TV or C) Working on her career for HER OWN PERSONAL FULFILLMENT.

Which leaves me, an eligible American man, asking myself "What do I need her for?" After a while, that occasional koo-koo she was offering just isn't worth it. After all, every woman's got one, including the Colombians.

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elchantajista says on Dec 15, 2006, 20:15:

Good post Cam0940 for me it's all about living on the edge and going to Colombia u can really test your self; go out your comfort zone, u know u alive after that every day routine of work lol , but it's a great country and great people and regardless what some people say we go cause we want to; not cause we have few choices, i think one of Colombia draw is it's danger and of course it's beauty that's a combo that's hard to beat

anda de parranda en Bogota
"Vicente"

anda de parranda al Juanchito "Vicente"

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alleycat says on Dec 15, 2006, 20:19:

there does seem to be many of these guys who head south so they can try to hook up with a more passive and submissive ideal. american women simply don't need men the way they used to. this economic liberation, like desideria says, leaves these men angry and confused. but are colombian women really any different? my experience says no. not in this respect anyway. most women from every country i've visited are in fact more family oriented than american women but this can be traced to the extreme individualism that characterizes the u.s. and not some magical quality of a foreigner. once you scratch the surface of this intense family orientation the truth is it can be suffocating
and debilitating and leaves many believing they're getting far more than they bargained for. these guys aren't necessarily defective just stuck in a time-warp longing for the days when they ruled the roost.

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Miguel says on Dec 15, 2006, 20:26:

Oye Don't give up your day jobs. Colombian experts you are not!

"There is nothing lower than the human race...except for the French." - Mark Twain 1878-79

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TioJoe says on Dec 15, 2006, 20:42:

Alleycat I am not confused -- again we say and I twice -- American women are in denial. Many american men do not like american women -- mind if I use your post as an example?

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cam0940 says on Dec 15, 2006, 20:43:

Alleycat, where do you get that from?

I don't consider myself to be "angry" or "confused". I consider myself to be fed up but very rational and clear minded.

As a matter of interest, I'm Black. I've dated women of many different nationalities and colors. One issue in the Black community is often times--and I do mean often--when a Black woman sees a Black man dating someone of a different race or nationality... they get personally offended. They turn their noses up, they're rude, and they talk about you behind your back. They say you "Sold out". I won't get into it any further, just suffice it to say I've "been there and done that."

They rationalize it amongst themselves saying "He's weak and can't handle a strong Black woman". There are a million things wrong with that statement but what I want you to focus on is how similar it is to the American or European woman trying to analyze the Gringo who marries a Colombian.

The truth is, I don't want a woman to be rolling her eyes and neck every time we have an issue to discuss. I don't want her trying to tell me off all the time and then having her girlfriends say "You go girl," like she put me in my place or something.

I am Black. My mother and sisters are Black. My dear Grandmother is Black. But I decided in 2004 that fuck it, I'm not going out with any Black women any more. Ever. They look. They flirt. They disrespect my wife like they could steal me from her because they are the same race as me. But fuck it, I'm not interested.

In a way, they're right. I don't want a "Strong Black Woman" in the sense they imply. I want a wife. That doesn't mean a subservient or passive woman; my wife is anything but. It just means I don't have time to be arguing with you and I don't have time for you to be acting crazy. "Strong" to me means you can handle the time we are apart waiting for DHS to get your paperwork together. "Strong" to me means you can have a happy relationship with me in the U.S. although your family is 3000 miles away. "Strong" to me means you go to class every day to obtain the basic education necessary to function as an American citizen, even though English isn't your first language. "Strong" is NOT proving that you can earn as much money as me, drive as well as me, earn a postgraduate degree or professional designation like me, launch a company like me... you're NOT me, and I don't want you to be. I don't want a competitor, I want a partner, because alone I am not whole. I don't want a duplicate, I want a complement.

So aside from this feminist thing, you have Black women who are on this "I can do that too" shit to the nth degree from a Civil Rights era standpoint and from a feminist standpoint. But there are other issues... single parenthood... poverty... even if some of these girls do make it to middle class or upper middle class society, a lot of them are carrying issues that I just don't have time or energy to deal with. That's why--as a Black man--you consider other races. What we're discussing here regarding Colombian women--for me--is just an extension of the same.

If I don't like what the women around me are bringing to the table, I'm going elsewhere. It has nothing to do with being angry and confused. I'm a very conscientious skirt chaser. Or I was anyway, till I found my wife.

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TioJoe says on Dec 15, 2006, 21:12:

Cam You said it better than I ever could -- my last word on this thread.

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Crazy4Cali says on Dec 15, 2006, 22:25:

Gosh, that'll teach me to show up to the party late... Cam summed it up so well that if anyone still has a question, they clearly weren't paying attention.

At the risk of echoing his post (though in a far less eloquent fashion) I'll only add that my two serious relationships with American women were competitions. We were always on opposite sides, even when we were in agreement (go figure that one out). Each had to constantly "prove" something.

"Marriage is compromise." "Marriage is work." they both liked to say. Not knowing any better, I went along until I couldn't handle it any more. Eventually (and with a lot of help) I figured out that marriage doesn't have to be a compromise and while there's a lot of work involved it doesn't have to feel like work. It turns out when you're both pushing in the same direction: a) you can actually go somewhere and b) it takes a whole lot less effort then when you are always trying to see who can push the hardest.

With a partner, it doesn't matter who makes more money than whom. That only matters when you are competing.

Bottom line, I didn't specifically set out to marry a Colombiana, but I'm glad the one I met and married has shown me how wonderful a marriage can (should) be.

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Swinn88 says on Dec 15, 2006, 22:26:

At the risk of sounding like an idiot (and I often do sound like one) I'd like to share a little something. My wife once asked me why do I love her and why am I with her. I told her simply...Because with you I truly feel like a man with a real woman. Let me explain. Just like Cam, It felt good, It was easy, no stress, no competition. She had her role and I had mine and we fit. Not submissive by any means,but she knew her role. I on the other hand treat her like women say they like to be treated, like I like to treat women, and she accepts that. we disagree, and argue and get mad sometimes and it doesn't matter. great gal she is. I let her be a true woman and she lets me be a true man.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 15, 2006, 22:38:

This is it in a nutshell........ "The facts are the "modern" woman as defined by the feminist is being rejected by a whole generation of men." aztec.....

that is the F#$% at ^g TRUTH!


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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goin_south says on Dec 15, 2006, 23:25:

Desi said: "...men who go to countries where they hope to find good old fifties-type of housewifely..."

I WASN'T EXACTLY... looking for JUNE CLEAVER

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Dec 15, 2006, 23:25:

nor am I exactly sure how that double post happened.

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 15, 2006, 23:38:

Who defines happiness? I have been following along, trying to understand why a whole lot of philosophical arguments are being set forth to justify a man's conduct. He does not owe an explanation to anyone. If an American man decides, for whatever reason, that a woman from a different culture, with different values, that happens to live in a foreign country is the woman that he so desires, wherein exists the problem?

I admit, some time ago, I had a hard time accepting these long distance marraiges as well. Just ask Mario. We almost had WWIII over it. However, I have had the time to see how many of these men have progressed happily with their new mates. Time has allowed me to change my perspective.

The only problem that I really have within this thread is that men are being forced to justify their conduct because many of the liberal/progressive feminist types put these men on the defensive when they assert, or at least infer, that the only reason that men marry these girls is so they can show off a young show piece that they happen to exploit and of course control. So that's what these people think. Or do they? Can it be that many of these middle aged women are just seeking excuses for the fact that finding a man is just that much more difficult for them because now men have an alternative. Competition can bring out the worse in people sometimes.

Guys.....forget the philosophy. You know why? Because all the philosophisizing and explanations in the world, is not going to convince your critics that what you are doing is not only your business, but it's acceptable. It's like beating a dead horse.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 15, 2006, 23:54:

Rather than take advantage of an oppurtunity to "enlighten" an apparent critic (SWG30) who simply asked a question, most posters here want to burn her at the stake like Joan of Arc....why the hostilities? if the OP had been a man posting the same question, you can bet your bottom dollar that the agression would not have occurred....i say just take the opportunity to turn a "unbeliever" into a "believer", and the OP probably would have a different outlook after hearing so many of the "testimonials" from the Happy Camper Club of PBH men who are living their lives as life was meant to be.

Now what has been written here is in the archives, so when other potential PBHers (including the female variety..=) ) lurk and evaluate PBH, they will not actively participate and will stay away from just another Mens Club forum......how boring that would soon become!!!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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aztec says on Dec 16, 2006, 05:08:

Supplementary information from todays El Tiempo. Not directly on topic but might provide greater insight. Of course researchers would want to know the validity and reliability of the research design.

For those of us who have difficulty reading Spanish just place the URL into Google translate and the whole page will be translated.

http://www.eltiempo.com/vidadehoy/2006-12-16/ARTICULO-WEB-NOTA_INTERIOR-3368225.html

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sweetg30 says on Dec 16, 2006, 06:12:

I read all of your comments And I must say that some of you guys sound like you're looking for a 1950's type wife, I guess you can still find that in Colombia or elsewhere but not all Colombian women are that way anymore. So you guys don't like to help your wife with the kids and cleaning around the house? what's wrong with that? my father used/still helps my mom around the house and he's 55 years old so he should be the macho of the house and don't anything around, he used to wake up at night and take care of my brother's and myself when we were sick and he's not my biological father but he like taking care of us, it didn't make him less of a man, in my eyes he is a real man. So what's wrong with a man doing things like that? is just a woman job to clean and take care of the house and family, we can't do the same like you guys and watch tv and go shopping while you take care of the kids, what's so bad about that? Why are you putting American women like the worst animal that men have to deal with. I had my expectations of what I wanted in a husband since I was in Colombia, so American didn't change my way of thinking but i realized you can't enter a marriage expecting things from the other person except from the basic, i expect my husband not to go around with other women. But you guys ecpect a lot from us when it comes to marriage, I never though some men could be like that. For what i read in here before I though you only care to look for a younger wife because the american women didn't like older men and that men would always be men and what else you can expect from men.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 16, 2006, 06:45:

I don't know mario, my Typical christmas in colombia? all the family together, my typical christmas in american? all the family together,and your point is?

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sweetg30 says on Dec 16, 2006, 06:57:

No i didn't mario I know what you guys are saying and I agree with you guys that some women put their career before their family and all the other good points.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 16, 2006, 07:26:

ok mario Whatever makes you happy, I did mario, is that better?

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sweetg30 says on Dec 16, 2006, 07:32:

mario I think you are hungry and need to eat some arepa con huevo o chicharrones, por que ya te estas poniendo medio aburridor muchacho. con que if i did or didn't or if you're happy and now u want to be elmer fudd. Querido necesitas coger aire fresco o hacer algo mijito.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 16, 2006, 07:39:

yes I did but I'm working on some of my clients files and no you're not bugs bunny my dear,But if that makes you happy, hey go ahead who am i to tell you otherwise.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Dec 16, 2006, 08:32:

I'm not trying to force anybody justify anything (Gomezman); I was just trying to answer sweetg30's question as I understand it. That's not something I read in some feminist website or magazine, I don't visit those places and have no idea how feminists view these issues. Or liberals, either. I've come to those conclusions I stated in my post after many casual discussions with friends, both female and male and after talking about the this topic to some length with an older brother of mine who's walking that walk, four divorces behind him and the new wives only turn younger and more exotic all the time. We don't even bother to make friends with the new girls any longer, at least during the first three months.

Unlike in Gringolandia, the great majority of Scandinavian men prefer to marry Scandinavian women and within their own age group. I can't even start to imagine how badly my gringa sisters have had to behave to deserve such bitterness from their men as comes forth from many posts here. The only gringa that I know really well is my other brother's mild-mannered, gentle wife, after 30 years of marriage their marriage is as strong as ever.

Could it just be that it's not a whole generation of men that have rebelled, but just a small minority?

BTW I agree with Rubito; many Colombianas I've met and befriended are just as assertive and empowered as us European women. They just don't make any big deal of it, especially in front of men.

Cheers,
Desi

«Sé que los seres humanos y los peces podrán coexistir en paz». ( George W. Bush, Saginaw 29-09-00)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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cam0940 says on Dec 16, 2006, 08:55:

I changed my mind about the post I was going to write. I think I'll follow G5's advice instead.

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webmanco says on Dec 16, 2006, 09:09:

Rigth on Men don't need any "Doras" in the house, but a partner for all activities, good and not good.

Some women "even in Colombia", are like "niñas de dedo parado" don´t move a finger, but expect men to do some mechanics, home repair etc.. But still women are needed once in a while. :)

Lavadora
Planchadora
Celadora

I had not read a lot from sweetg30 , but just wanted to comment on the last post. (erased by Cam)




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//]]

2006-12-17 00:00:00 GMT+00:00

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 16, 2006, 09:10:

Desi my dear, my comment was not addressed to you. It was addressed to SweetPea or whatever her name is. I just have a hard time understanding why all these guys who have married Colombian woman have to justify doing so.

I think Cam wrote a good post too. It's a classic. At the same time it should not be necessary. I'm not known in these circles for being short and simplistic. However, this is one of these instances where I am begining to believe that to those that are skeptical of international marriages, the more posts that are written to justify marrying a woman from another country, the more that those who criticize this conduct are going to dig in further and question the reason for doing so. SweetPea says it herself, in her last substantial post. There is nothing that anyone is going to write here that will change her perspective. I say, ignore such people and move on. NOBODY HAS TO JUSTIFY THEIR PERSONAL ACTIONS IF BOTH THAT PERSON AND THE OTHER PARTY (WIFE) ARE CONTENT WITH THEIR SITUATION. END OF STORY.

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cam0940 says on Dec 16, 2006, 09:31:

I will say one last thing, though.

Notice how Sweetg30 defined "manhood" using her stepdad's helping around the house etc? Anybody notice how women always try to define "manhood" but then when we men define what we consider "womanhood" it's either ignored or flatly rejected? There's always something wrong with our definition, or we're cavemen trying desperately to hold on to a past era. So basically, women are OK to define what a man should be, but men should be quiet on what a woman should be.

Does anyone else find that hypocritical?

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 16, 2006, 09:40:

Include me Cam Yea, that is as hypocritical as it gets. On the other hand, if I had the desire and time, I could provide a laundry list of items illuminate other examples of such hypocracy.

That's a great comparison Cam. Beware though, there are a few people that will come on here and do a tap dance around your comparison and try to split hairs in an attempt to find fault with your comparison

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 16, 2006, 09:53:

A man is free to choose whomever or whatever type he wants in a woman, and vice versa.....dont like that type of person? find one that you like/want and all is well! =) unless, of course, it is a marriage by arrangement, and not consent...ME? i am still trying to find out if Bill Gates has a sister, ugly or not! hahahahahaha....


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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goin_south says on Dec 16, 2006, 11:50:

Thanks guys for takin the time to write, but FOR ONCE! I HAVE TO TIP MY HAT TO _____ GOMEZMAN5_______!!!!!

So, thanks for sparing me. What do I need to say? I like. She likes. We like.

All this philosophizing is nice (and time-consuming).
But, I never hear too many say it, so I will:
After I divorced a lady much like Cam was married to, my next relationship was with a Puerto Riquenan. I told her, if not her, then another Latina, it would be. Can't help myself. And, then it was simply the internet winding my focus out and down to a strange and wonderful place I had not ever considered before...Colombia.

I am a sucker - and a Happy One, at that! - for the latina accent, the look, the mannerisms that are a little unique, and just about every other damned thing... I got no complaints.
IT IS WHAT I AM ATTRACTED TO.
AS ----- GOMEZMAN5 ------- SAYS:
END OF STORY.

I got nothing to be ashamed about.
Don't have to justify nothin'.
Colombia is_____________ it's better than going to DisneyWorld!
She's happy; I'm happy. We're happy. Que sera, sera.

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Dec 16, 2006, 18:22:

Isn't there a Troll Bridge in NYC? "Tengo mucha compasión para Sweetg_thirty."

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 16, 2006, 18:43:

I'm not a doc mario I'm a social worker and we call the people we work for clients, in this case victims of domestic violence ok?

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sweetg30 says on Dec 16, 2006, 19:06:

Ok Mario, are you trying to make yourself happy again? I Do believe that some of you guys are honest people that went to Colombia looking for love and found what you were looking for, If I agree or disagree it doesn't really matter as long as you guys are happy, that's what it counts. I'm not against that, I'm against all the people that treat women like sex objects and disrespect them. But some of you are in your little bubble and can't see beyond that and You're entitle to your opinion as I entitle to my opinion, end of the story.

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goin_south says on Dec 16, 2006, 19:18:

end of story? that sounds suspiciously like... El Martillo.
"Tengo mucha compasión para el loro."

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 16, 2006, 19:22:

El martillo? no te entiendo pero haya tu, oye tu no tienes nada mejor que hacer, espero que no te hayas pasado todo el dia en la computadora, es muy malo para tus ojos y la falta de ejercico lleva a la obesidad. No quieres terminar como el muchacho de la foto, imaginate eso.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 16, 2006, 19:25:

OK Counselor......Mind if say........ I don't believe you whan you say:
-"It doesn't really matter as long as you guys are happy"

So my question is it took you over 100 posts, and a thread stretching all the way to page three to come up with that conclussion? Do you remember your first question?

"What's wrong with the women that are here? "

That was your opening post. That post did not indicate that you were coming on here with an open mind. Is that the normal avenue that you take with those that you counsel? It sounds more like you had some preconcieved notions about what you considered right or wrong, and that your questioning was designed to inform us as such. Don't ya think a better tone could have been used? Look, I came into this thread late. Just about everyone, right from the beginning was skeptical of your intentions. Can all of us be wrong? You can fool some people......but not the G5

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billyb says on Dec 16, 2006, 19:29:

Sweetspot30, maybe Galecito saw how attracted you... were to the obese gentleman in the picture and wanted to have a better shot at you.

BillyB

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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goin_south says on Dec 16, 2006, 19:37:

Eating away.... Bags of Chips, con montanas de queso.. pork roastS!,...beber el ron, with lots and lots of coconut, bananas... Eating away, the kitchen sink... hoping, wishing, waiting... to be her next 'victim'. jeje CheeeezeCake con Queso...jaja

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Dec 16, 2006, 19:39:

no mas gymnasio! Espero para ti...con mucho lipo. lol

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 16, 2006, 19:41:

I'm not trying to fool you or anybody else The people I work with has nothing to do with this. And I already told you guys about those comments I made before. But you believe what you want and I'm not going to try to convinced you otherwise.
I believe what I want and you believe what you want but this is getting boring for me, that's all

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billyb says on Dec 16, 2006, 19:46:

Gale', your efforts might be in vain... but no need to curtail the ron.

BillyB

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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goin_south says on Dec 16, 2006, 19:59:

whining women..... free-flowing mouthes...

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 16, 2006, 20:04:

Jeez, is this all it takes to get everyones "panties in a bunch" So friggin easyyyyyy that was!!!!!!! SWG30 must have really struck the right nerve or sore spot with her posts!! how pathetic!!! Some of you clowns are making a mountain out of a molehill....she sure has played some of you, Hook, Line, and Sinker!!!! =)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 16, 2006, 20:09:

G...victims of DV are hardly a bunch of whining women..... and to the others: since when did men have the exclusive right to have an opinion, and to express it on PBH or anywhere.....if you disagree with her, then say so in a discussion manner, but the same rules of PBH apply to everyone, no? ..or is it the "Do as I Say, Not as I do" principle? .or is PBH just another mens forum or Good Ol' Boyz Club??...if so, how boring!

..Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 16, 2006, 20:19:

Lol...can you post a pic of that mario!?? ...hmmm...carrot cake i have not had that in a while!!!!!!! definitely will tomorrow, though!!!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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elchantajista says on Dec 17, 2006, 02:58:

the fact that We don't have dicussion on why gringas marry hombres from other countries or other races pretty well says it all, we live in a male dominated world, I've crossed the racial lines and anybody else that has, knows the stares and sometimes the fights that can happen from the males that r from her race,I hear from my Mex.friends talk the about Colombiana girls that r from my city that go out with the gringos, I'm invisiable cause i'm consider more spanish that gringo lol; the truth I think, is a percentage of Latinos just don't like to see latinas go out with gringos, same thing can be said of whites and blacks an other races, I see some reports that gringas get married to other races 10 times more that gringos, My sisters married different races so i have no problem with that, just if i want to do it ,nobody should have a problem also

anda de parranda en Bogota
"Vicente"

anda de parranda al Juanchito "Vicente"

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podborski says on Dec 17, 2006, 05:45:

some of us guys just like to travel and meeting fun, beautiful, intelligent women is part of the experience (hopefully!)

But it is also true for me and several of my male friends in Canada that we do not necessarily dislike north american women, but damn they make it hard to meet them. They can be very cold and seem to take joy in humiliating a guy who is trying to strike up a conversation.

I compare that to Colombia, where I get greeted like a long lost friend by almost everyone, bartenders, waitresses, hotel staff, etc., etc., and where I can smile at a pretty girl in the street and she smiles back and isn't offended like women in NA are.

If I ask a girl to go out, or to dance in colombia the reponse is ALWAYS at very least polite, even if the answer is no. In Canada, you might as well be asking a women to go home with you when you say 'hi, what's your name?'

And don't get me started on the horrible experiences 2 of my close friends had with cheating wives who never worked a day in their lives, then finally ran off with the cabana boy, which is all fine except the rules are the hard working husband with the great job who has beeng dumped has to the pay the cheating wife and cabana boy (who makes nothing)to bring them up the standard of living that she was accustomed to.

Now, call me cynical, but no way am I going to marry a woman in NA. (Truth is I'll never marry anyone (although I think I proposed to my sweet colombiana last night in a bit of a drunken haze, LOL!), but IF I was going to marry, it sure wouldn't be in NA)

Desi, to answer your question, I think guys like me are just a minority, but I'll tell you I have a LOT of my male friends from home wishing they were me. Only one in a thousand will ever do anything about it though.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 17, 2006, 06:20:

Some of you guys have good points I guess Colombian women don't cheat, they don't have nasty responses for people and they're happy people all the time, that's what you basically just said. Some of you just want to attack me and American women making generalizations based on your personal experiences and your friends. How's that any different from what I did? I'm consider an evil American woman and house wife at the same time,with too much time in my hands by some of you, I'm a slut, some of you wanted my pic, for what purpose I don't know, some of you implied I was jealous, others wanted to know where I live and if I could take a bath in your house.
one of the reason I posted those thread is because some of you disrespect the Colombian women that you seem to like so much and some others make Colombia look like a prostitution house.I bring home my "32.000" according to one of you guys because I have to prove something to myself and my husband. You guys know women in general and Colombian women better than anybody else, why do I work and bring home money that my family doesn't need? Because I'm a selfish modern woman that only cares about myself. In general american women are consider like garbage by some of you, How does women for a certain place gets to deserve that title?

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sweetg30 says on Dec 17, 2006, 06:25:

I totally agree with MC, Now I know "some" you guys don't like to be ask any questions, you just like people to go with the flow and since I'm a female, I'm nobody to be asking questions, I don't have a male reproductive system. But like I said before I don't care I got some honest opinion and a lot of garbage from some of you. I have a better pic of the whole thing.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 17, 2006, 06:29:

MC, that's like marie claire one of my favorite magazines, lol. I bet you is one of your favorite too, we can sit together and read the magazine.

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podborski says on Dec 17, 2006, 07:01:

sorry sweetg but as someone said earlier on, it's just that your question is kind of pointless. Not to mention thew way you stated it implies that men HAVE to go outside their own country to meet women. That's like the old trick question 'when did you stop beating your wife?' It's a false premise.

No one HAS to go anywhere, but some of us choose to.

I do appreciate the opportunity to express my thoughts on NA women however.

The fact is, I just happen to have a much better experience with colombian (and czech and french and italian and japanese and...)women than I do with NA women. It's my experience, end of story. It's a free world and I'll go where I want to go. Why on earth would you care who I date?

For the record, last thing I want is a 'traditional' stay at home woman. I love how colombianas can be professional, strong willed and opinionated but at the same time not feel the need to denigrate men, which is not the case with many NA women, IMHO.

Anyway, I often wonder if it's just that while travelling I am happier and not carrying the jaded attitude I have back home, so it's easier to meet people? Who knows?

Luckily I am able to live where I want to, and right now I am choosing SA. And at this very minute I am visiting Bogotá, and realizing all over again how happy I am when I am here.

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tomass says on Dec 17, 2006, 08:34:

Finland was the first to give women the vote and the divorce rate is v high. Couples living together and not marrying and single mothers are all v high.
Many Finnish men prefer to take Russian or Thai wives.
The Swedes stick together because they are all so boring no-one else will have them.

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esporti says on Dec 17, 2006, 08:59:

Colombiana's have what Gringa's don't It's many things, why American Men go to places like Colombia for beautiful latina women. No, it's not because they are desperate. Many men and women love the experience of someone from a different culture. It adds to their life. Colombiana's are classier, not snobby like gringa's. They are down to earth, yet so beautiful whether they are 40 years old or 20 years old. They love to please their man, they take pride in their husband's. The real question is why are American men marrying these selfish, all day pajama wearing, Jerry Springer and Days of Our Lives American Women.

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CtYankee says on Dec 17, 2006, 09:09:

Have? You would first have to define "Have," a highly subjective word. Otherwise you could have millions of answers.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 17, 2006, 10:07:

Responses to the other questions in the OP??? "and how come they don't have websites for females? maybe we don't like the men that are here and we can go and find a man in another county"..

Anybody want to try and offer their opinion to these questions?

and i agree with Podborski...the lawyers and the entire dysfunctional and failing civil divorce system totally sucks for the man, at least in California it is.....Femnazis have also contributed to the unfairness and chaos in society, not because their are in the right, or in the majority, but because they have the BIGGEST MOUTHS and have taken the offensive, while the "other gender" sits on its haunches and wonders "What happened?"...IMBRA is a perfect example...instead of addressing the tooth that hurts, the femmnazis advocate pulling out all of the teeth!!!

BTW...heres that photo of Mario sans the carrot, though! =)



Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 17, 2006, 10:09:

I could not resist when i saw this one too: G5 and Mario on that last lawyer thread:



Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 17, 2006, 10:26:

SweetG30...never read that magazine, but with regards to DV victims, i know most of the legitimate ones are not the whiney type.....my experience (not as an abuser but as the one to put the abuser in jail) has been that the vast majority of males (including gang bangers, parolees, prison gangster, teachers, lawyers, cops, etc..) that i have been involved in their arrests are all Macho when in front of other people, but when they are sitting in the back seat of a patrol car and the reality of their situation hits them, they whine, cry, pout, snivel like little bitches....its so hilarious! like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hydes!!!!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Crazy4Cali says on Dec 17, 2006, 10:46:

Well, a study was published that explained one reason Las mujeres latinas son las más fogosas del mundo, según estudio con mayores de 40 años

Apparently, from the article, La fogosidad de las latinas adultas se constata con el hecho de que el 82 por ciento de las venezolanas calificó el sexo de importante en sus vidas, porcentaje que en el caso de las mexicanas llegó a 80 por ciento.

while in Italy and France, La baja apetencia sexual entre las europeas se constató también en el hecho de que, según la encuesta, 21 por ciento de las italianas piensan que el sexo es muy importante, solo el 13 por ciento de las francesas piensa igual...

Meanwhile, on this message board some American women are complaining that their husbands aren't bringing home the bacon as fast as they are. It seems, to them, it's all about money and power. Granted it's hard to say what percentage of American women this particular thread represents, but as an American man, if I ran into one or two of them, especially in a romantic sense, I would be seriously put off by the experience.

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jay1234 says on Dec 17, 2006, 12:24:

MC The answer to the other question in OP is money. If companies could make any money off of females in NA looking for hombres in other countries, there would be tons of sites. I think it has more to do with gender than country of origin. My thought is that men are more apt to take an active role in finding their mate than women (I know this is a generalization, but I think it holds some merit). It includes going on internet sites, using agencies, and being willing to travel to find a mate. It is also why there is a ton of porn online for heterosexual men, but not so much for heterosexual women (the distinction being that there are pornographic pictures of men out there, just packaged and marketed for those who buy it - gay men). An interesting aside is the question of are immigrants of any country different from non-immigrants? I have read about one idea that says that an immigrant is by nature more out-going, risk-taking than a non-immigrant when there is strong pressure (usually economic) to emmigrate. Raises the issue (wow, this is probably going to be provocative, but heck, whats the fun of PBH if we don't have spirited discussions) is there a more "authentic" Colombiana, the one who stays in Colombia, or the one who moves? And does that change the nature of her to the point where it is like comparing apples and oranges when discussing immigrant/non-immigrant Colombianas?

This whole thread is hilarious. The camps seem to boil down to the following positions:
1) Personal preference is why I choose to date/marry Colombianas.
2) You are scared/dim-witted/afraid to face your own issues (or "Achilles heel") if you don't engage sweetg in her argument.
3) You are a moron if you fall for the trap in 2), above, and are so easily provoked that you engage her in her argument.

Seems like the first position sums up the issue nicely. The other two are incredibly funny for the Hobbesian choice it puts posters/readers in. "Suffer name calling if you choose to discuss. Also, if you don't."
jajaj... too funny.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 17, 2006, 12:47:

i agree with you , jay1234.. it has been my experience, and please note **my experience** for the reading impaired! =)....that when i posed the question to many non-prepago Colombianas of whether or not they would want to move to the US if they married an american or would they prefer to stay in Colombia with their american husband, a significant majority preferred to remain in Colombia with a foreign husband. Most would also admit, though, that if the husband desired to live in his native country, they would go whereever their husband desired.
Upon further questioning, it was obvious that most Colombianas, and Colombians for that matter, are fiercely proud of their country, and that more value is placed on family (it seems, as compared to the California woman) would these women say is a primary reason for staying in Colombia. Additional advantages are obviously language, culture etc. So to shoot down that stereotype of all Colombianas as citizenship seekers, my experience tells me otherwise....now, of course, a gold digger is a gold digger, and they are obviously excluded and easily identified.....

my position is that a man, or woman, can choose whomever they want for a spouse, whether foreign, native, or even June Cleaverish if they like...it is no ones business but their own and the spouse...asa long as it is mutual agreeable.....but the femnazis are sticking their noses where it doesnt belong......they seem to be miserable, and we all know "misery loves company".....

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 17, 2006, 16:51:

June Cleaver? I'd like Donna Reed. I saw those old episodes on Nick at Nite and damm, that babe was hot. Now she was a MILF back before there were MILFs. That's old school, man.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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elchantajista says on Dec 17, 2006, 16:55:

hey esporti Well said !!!!! u can't talk to Gringas at work cause if one day they get mad all they have to do is yell sex harrasment and they get paid no question asked, one inciden i know of a women gets 150,000 dollars because of a small incident, after befriending a group of guys, lots of lonely older gringa women looking for younger guys mostly for one stand why bother with all this bs; when Colombianas offers so much more; beautiful 30/40 yr old women with kids i don't care that are so willing for a good relation, one thing my gringo brothers if u can't speak spanish be true to the game learn it!!

anda de parranda en Bogota
"Vicente"

anda de parranda al Juanchito "Vicente"

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goin_south says on Dec 17, 2006, 21:49:

working on it,...... elchantaj.ista Feliz Navidad en Lafayette? a 'work-in-progress' as they say. But, frankly, I'm a little pissed, because after almost two years, she has about 6 phrases in english mastered. I'm... really piss'd. :)

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Dec 17, 2006, 21:51:

UTC... maybe you'd also like the Cleaver Beaver. She's no Salma H., but she's probably better than an inflatable Colombiana.

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 18, 2006, 07:16:

MC "They are all Macho when in front of other people, but when they are sitting in the back seat of a patrol car and the reality of their situation hits them, they whine, cry, pout, snivel like little bitches...." Yes I know, it's really pathetic but any man that hits a women in my eyes it's not a man, just garbage. Thanks to my mom that taught me very early that nobody has the right to hit me or put me down, with all the DV going on she was scared I might meet one of these garbage later on in life. There's a lot of garbage in the USA and everywhere else, including Colombia.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 18, 2006, 07:19:

funny galecito Yo no voy al gym por que necesito lipo, solo para no necesitarla.Pero como ya me estoy poniendo vieja tengo que prestar atencion.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 18, 2006, 07:22:

MC"is there a more "authentic" Colombiana, the one who stays in Colombia, or the one who moves?" I consider myself a very "authentic" colombiana and very proud of my linda Colombian.

Morphus"I go to Colombia to meet virgin girls between 18-22 years old" When I left Barranquilla 11 years ago, If you wanted to marry someday, you need it to be a virgin. All my friends and anybody that was a female knew this. I don't know how that works now. But I bet there are a lot of those virgin's that you seem to like in Colombia.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 18, 2006, 07:24:

C4C"Well, a study was published that explained one reason
Las mujeres latinas son las más fogosas del mundo, según estudio con mayores de 40 años "so you'll marry somebody based on how many times she wants to have sex with you? And that study is very impartial, only three countries, how can they affirmed that? y Brasil? mujeres fogosas hay en todas partes la cuestion es encontrarlas. Mijito no base todas sus conclusiones en solamente sexo por que eso si es una cosa triste.

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tomass says on Dec 18, 2006, 07:30:

and its a well known fact sweetass that countless millions of Irish men and women have married into every race under the sun ... without exception .. and without ..
distinction

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sweetg30 says on Dec 18, 2006, 07:53:

Please Is sweetg30 only my husband gets to call my trasero sweetass.
"countless millions of Irish men and women have married into every race under the sun"

That's a great thing!!!!!

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gringolondinense says on Dec 18, 2006, 07:59:

Sweetiepie why is it a good thing that millions of irish have married into every race? Please explain. Gracias!

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sweetg30 says on Dec 18, 2006, 09:07:

esanch36 This is a very scary comment "I dont care what you say but the man always has to be the leader, women want to be led even if they dont know it " A lot of the men I deal with think like that and you know what's the next step when women don't want to do what the leader want, beating them until they agree with them. Not my type of relationship, I prefer to talk things and come to a agreement, nobody is the boss or leader. This is the kind of attitude I was talking about it.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 18, 2006, 09:12:

"Hookers, drugs" elmo who knows what you're really doing in Colombia. You're free to do with your money whatever you want. I'm not even going to bother answering you.

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alleycat says on Dec 18, 2006, 09:33:

this was taken verbatim from a marriage introduction service in bogota.

"Latin women are mostly conservative. They are raised with unspoliled attitude and are prepared to devote themselves totally in marriage. They believe that a marriage lasts forever. The role of the woman is also the guiding light of the family so she maintains strong family values and traditions.
The woman shown in our website, are all professionals and while they expect to fulfil traditional roles of wife and mother, they also anticipate continuing in their professional careers.
Given the opportunity, a well-educated woman of Colombia will prefer to have a relationship with a man from another country. This is because she believes the Colombian men will always be domineering, unfaithful and maintain a chauvinistic attitude. She seeks a kind, loving and thoughful man who wants a monogamous relationship in marriage. In most cases, age or physical looks are not primary concerns of a Colombian Woman. we prefer older and mature gentleman who will treat us well and love us sincerely".

american men read this marketing hype and naturally want to find a woman like this when they think all american women are completely the opposite. so they get on a plane and head to these places and expect to find their savior.

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gringolondinense says on Dec 18, 2006, 09:50:

you'd have to be pretty dumb to read that and believe any of it. Its what all internet bride sites say. you could easily substitute the word colombia with "china" "Russia" etc.

What really freaks me out are the sites that have photos of the "love tours" the agencies arrange. They basically hire a room out, put a few snacks and drinks out on a table then invite the ladies. Ive seen 65 year old guys with out-of-this-world 21 year old birds on these things. The guys look like they have found true love...within only 10 seconds of meeting his wife-to-be.

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cam0940 says on Dec 18, 2006, 10:17:

sweetg30,
You said earlier sweetg30,

You said earlier that any man that hits a woman is not a man, just garbage. Something about wanting to have his way, and if he can't he beats her. For the record, men don't really work that way. Actually, women are something like 5 times more likely to strike their spouses, three times more likely to use a weapon, 50% of murders between spouses are committed by women, and women are generally accepted as the more emotionally volatile gender. About 1 in 10 men currently report issues of domestic violence to authorities. I could go on but I just wanted to give you a little bit to think about as you consider your answer to the following question:

Is the woman who hits her man "not a woman, just garbage"?

Given most mens' abhorrence to arguing or any long, painful discussion with a woman, does it really make sense that male DV offenders strike their wives "because they couldn't have their way"? Is it more likely that the bitch provoked, pushed, and urked him until he exploded? That's a little bit of a loaded way to ask the question, but DV annoys me, because men are generally presumed guilty until proven innocent, and therefore we all have to watch these bullshit commercials about the so-called innocent female victim having to hide in a shelter or whatever.

I've never met a guy who's first option would be to hit is wife. The only way I could see something like that happening is in the case where he tries to leave and she jumps in front of the door... he tries to mind his own business and she keeps fucking with him... he's trying to chill and she's being an incorrigible ball buster... and he's telling her "OK OK that's enough" and she just keeps going and going and going until something happens. Then she's crying at some social worker's office about how bad he is, claiming she doesn't know what happened, "He just went crazy!" Yeah right. I think Domestic Violence is a bunch of bullshit.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 18, 2006, 10:35:

Some PBHrs are so full of shit their eyes are brown....=) It must be nice to make up stats taken from an unknown place, and an unknown location....perhaps in some trailer park? i have personally been involved in the arrest of thousands of DV case in the one of the nations largest cities over a 27 yr period, and i would guestimate that over 90% of the cases i was involved in the male was deemed the primary agressor and arrested. And, yes, a man who beats his wife is a piece of shit AND garbage....especially ones who do it in front of the children! and when the success rate for DV prosecution is very good, its no wonder that in the publics eye men are presumed to be guilty before proven innocent...thats a no-brainer! But that is not the case in the court systems in CA.....Dont hit your wife/gf/significant other and you wont have any problems, no? If you havent met a guy whos first option would is to hit his wife, then you must have been hiding in a shelter, as it is a reality, whether you have seen it or not. Maybe you run with a better group of men, where that is not the case. And if the man is so weak in character that his loved one can push his buttons so easily with words, then that man has mental health issues.

Your caveman approach to the issue fortunately is rapidly fading like the Rubix cube and pet rock...


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 18, 2006, 10:37:

BRB.....gotta go Christmas shopping!!!!!!!!!!!!! =) Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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cam0940 says on Dec 18, 2006, 10:44:

Let's look at a couple of real world example: Lorena Bobbitt cut her husband's picha off for alleged infidelity. WAY out of control emotionally. Lisa "Left Eye" Lopez burned Andre Rison's $2 million mansion to the ground becuase she was unhappy in the relationship. When have you ever in your life heard of a man doing some stupid shit like that? In entertainment, within the first 15 minutes of the hit movie "Waiting to Exhale", Angela Bassett was informed that her husband was leaving her for another woman and she put all his clothes in his BMW and set the car on fire in the driveway. I distinctly remember all the women in the theatre applauding and cheering her on. Then she sold all the rest of his stuff in a garage sale for $1 each. All the women in the theatre were saying "That's right! That's what he deserves!"

We're talking about emotionally unstable creatures.

If men had these kinds of histories, the DV pitch might make sense, but we don't. No man is going to burn the house down because he finds you with another man. If he walks in on you he might beat both your asses, but we might all understand that as a society. After all, if you weren't acting like a ho, it might never have happened. But he's not going to burn the house down.

My ex-wife's cousin, now that I think of it, put all of her husband's clothes in the bathtub and set it on fire, not realizing that the bathtub was made of flammable fiberglass. Damn near burned the fuckin house down. Had to dial 911 and had fire trucks all down the street. She was embarrassed to be seen by the neighbors for months.

My point is that when we talk about DV, women's arguments only make sense if we assume that the males are the emotionally out of control parties, who lose sight of what they are doing, and beat their wives. There's very little empirical evidence to support this, however. All you really have are REPORTED cases, when we all know that generally men don't report. Even in those cases that are reported, you so called social workers never look into CAUSATION, that is... how did it get to this point? If I fucked with you non-stop, all night, all weekend long, insulting you in all different kinds of ways as a woman, individual, and a human being, and wouldn't let you get a word in edgewise, kept cutting you off, talking over you, ranting and raving at the top of my lungs embarrassing you because the neighbors can hear me, at some point your cup might overflow too. I say that in these situations, at least half of the responsibility, if not all, belongs to the out of control woman. If she doesn't have the discipline and the self control to express herself in a more constructive manner, then she has no right to complain about what happens when she finally pushes her man past his threshold. When she goes on one of these trips, all he really wants is for her to shut up and sit down. If he can't talk her into doing that, well. She's going to be made to shut up one way or the other. You're not going to just keep ripping him to pieces while he sits there and takes it forever. If he can't talk to you, socking you might be the only way to make you shut up.

And then DV folks say "Well go for a walk." Why? Why is the man going to go for a walk or go drive around aimlessly when he's not the one out of control? Maybe he just wants to sit down and watch TV? He can't because he has to leave home because this bitch is incapable of shutting up? That's not HIS fault. If anybody should be going for a walk it's her. What if it's late a night and he has to work the next day? What if it's cold or raining? He has to go "for a walk" because this bitch is tripping? That's wrong. She has some responsibility to bring herself under control before things get out of hand. Otherwise, she has no room to complain. Ranting and raving and cogiendo rabietas is childish. For me, this is the Number One thing, far and above anything else, to avoid in a relationship. Fellas, if your woman exhibits any of the traits I just described, leave her ass immediately. It's appropriate in a Colombian board because the so-called "fire" that Colombianas have is in part what leads to these kinds of dilemnas. Find a woman who can explain her grievances like and adult, let you respond, and then knows when it's time to shut the fuck up.

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poco says on Dec 18, 2006, 10:54:

Ahhh, another post I don't have time to read The question is worthwhile. In over 4 years I have yet to hear one small complaint,, not one,, of course I'm perfect and should NOT hear complaints but I have heard them from U.S. women,, ie: they BITCH a lot when their life is for all intents and purposes WONDERFUL.

ie:
U.S.
When will you finish xxxxxxx,, the place is a mess.
COLOMBIA
When you finish the xxxx it will be wonderful,, is there anything I can do to help.

This project took most of 4 months. NO COMPLAINT about the mess and it was a big mess.

After tearing out 18 meters of crappy workmanship wall I installed the grade beams and columns. Colombians do a nice rebar job.



Get the picture ?

Also,, why take them to the U.S.,, or even marry them,, this can lead to disappointment and I've spent my life on the lookout for potential disappointment and avoiding it when possible.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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cam0940 says on Dec 18, 2006, 11:04:

Well I appreciate that you closed your post with "It's just my opinion" MC, because that's all it really is.

Before I answer your post, I've been a poster here and on Colombianblog for a fairly long time now. People who know me know that I do not just make things up. If I said it as fact, it's because it's true. If I didn't know I'm humble enough to say so. Where it's my opinion, I clearly label it. You're not really in a position to say otherwise, and I'm not going to sit here and argue it with you.

Regarding your other information, you obviously don't have the same experience I do. In fact, although your screen name is "Miguel", I would guess you're probably female. If so, there in lies your confusion: a female is in no position to have any understanding of a man's thought process...don't give a damn how many cases you've seen. I'd furthermore like to point out that by the time the police arrive and the man is toted off to court, you have no idea how they actually arrived at that point, now do you? All you know is he hit her. But why? Men don't go around just striking other men for no reason, so why did he hit her? See every action has a cause, nothing happens "just because". That's what people like you would have us believe. And I'm not talking about just simple little words. I'm talking about out of control behavior. If Andre Rison beat Lisa Lopez' ass for burning his house down, I'd let him go. After all, it's her fault. That's what I'm talking about: provocation. And that's the point that you seem to have missed in my post. Nothing happens "out of the blue."

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cam0940 says on Dec 18, 2006, 11:12:

I believe you elmo. You can be physically abused but still have other options besides knocking her out. I've been there. But, absent those other options...

My friend was cornered in the bathroom. One way in, one way out. His wife--mind you SHE was the one cheating--was beating him with a curling iron because he called her a ho. Now he could move her out of the doorway and create an exit from the bathroom, but these DV idiots would call that abuse on his part too. He could lay her out on the carpet with a right hook, after all she was beating him with a curling iron. But then he's going to jail. So he took it.

And these DV idiots would say that "makes him a man" because he didn't hit her back. I say that's dumb and I say that ANYONE who allows someone to do that to them, male or female, and doesn't defend themselves, is a chump.

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cam0940 says on Dec 18, 2006, 11:55:

You see Miguel, first of all, if it's OK for a woman to cut a man's picha off, burn his house down, or even just to slap him, you're holding the woman to a lesser standard of self control than you're holding the man, which is bullshit.

Secondly, just like a little bully on the playground, if you don't respond when that person throws something at you or strikes you, then you're teaching that person what they can get away with, and they will do it again. Subconciously that person records "OK, last time I slapped him he cowed away like a bitch. So that's a pretty good indication of what he'll do next time." And that's how it happens the second time, the third time, and so on. If she hits you, you either leave her right then or you hit her back. The argument for hitting her back is simple: by her hitting you, she's telling you that physical contact is--in her mind--an acceptable form of communication. She's communicating her frustration, anger, whatever by hitting you. So for you to try to respond to her by talking is not rational. If you ask me a question in Japanese and I answer in Spanish, I'd be a fool to thing you get it. I need to answer you in a language that you understand. So if you strike me, don't be surprised, don't expect to go running to the police, don't be screaming "Domestic Violence!" or any of that. The object of me striking you back is so that next time you get all worked up you'll hopefully stop to think "OK, if I hit him, there's something coming back. That's not going to be the end of it." Now you don't have to leave bruises, you don't have to leave black eyes. You just need to communicate to her that "Hey, we're not going to have this, you striking out at me whenever you want." I'm a husband/boyfriend/significant other. I'm not your child and I'm not your punching bag. So you think good and long before you throw that coaster at me. You think good and long before you slap me or punch me or whatever, because I WILL hit you back. I won't start the drama, because I'd rather watch HBO or play Xbox or something...I don't have time for foolishness. But if you're going to take it there, then I'll end it. I can sit down and communicate like 30 somethings ought to be able to. For me it doesn't matter how hairy the subject is, let's talk it out. But if you're going to start acting crazy and you have to express yourself by striking me, I'm sorry I'm just not going to sit there and take that from any person, I don't care who you are.

I'm in LA just like you are, and I'm here to tell you there's a LOT of women who keep hearing this bullshit that we say "Oh, a man should never hit a woman" and they believe it. That's part of the reason they believe they can strike a man with impunity. They think they can do whatever they want and nothing's going to happen, but that's the wrong answer at my house. If you hit me, man or woman, the next time it crosses your mind you're going to remember what happened the LAST time.

I really don't see how a DV counselor could argue with that. It's so sexist to say that the man is garbage if he strikes a woman. What you OUGHT to be preaching is that it is fundamentally wrong for one partner to strike the other, period. If you do, don't go crying to the police or charitable organizations because the person hit you back. You're a hypocrite in those cases. You should be preaching that human beings are just that: human beings. There's only so much shit you can pile on top of him OR her. You keep prodding, provoking, and generally fucking with a human being, he/she is going to reach a tipping point. I'm not talking about voicing legitimate concerns or grievances, that's part of normal communication in a relationship. I'm talking about psychotic ranting and raving, making a scene in front of the neighbors, talking about mommas and insulting the other person's manhood or womanhood. There's only so much we--as human beings (man or woman)--can take before we explode. And some of us, like me, have very high thresholds, but it's not infinite. At some point the big mouth who's on the verbal abuse onslaught has to realize "OK I'm just about there" and then back off. In fact, I posit that some women do it just to see how far they can go BEFORE HE DOES blow up. Trying to break him. Trying to push him to that limit. Remember in high school how there was always one kid that got picked on? And all the cool kids used to just fuck with him? Well one day when that kid brings an Uzi to school and kills everybody, I think we have to ask whose fault that truly was? And some relationships/arguments are just like that. I'm not talking theory here, I'm not talking about what you learned while getting your sociology degree. I'm talking about real life. I'm talking about serious issues that flaw the so called statistics that DV workers love to cite. I'll tell you who else knows what's really going on: police officers. Sit and talk to one. One officer told me that in his estimation maybe 90% of the guys he arrested were guys that were just getting fucked with to no end by their partners. Some of the women WANTED the man to go to jail for a few days because they were mad at him, so they kept fucking with him and intentionally pushed him to do whatever he did, so they could run and call 911. It's bullshit.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 18, 2006, 12:06:

“Let's look at a couple of real world example: Lorena Bobbitt cut her husband's picha off for alleged infidelity. WAY out of control emotionally. Lisa "Left Eye" Lopez burned Andre Rison's $2 million mansion to the ground becuase she was unhappy in the relationship. When have you ever in your life heard of a man doing some stupid shit like that? In entertainment, within the first 15 minutes of the hit movie "Waiting to Exhale", Angela Bassett was informed that her husband was leaving her for another woman and she put all his clothes in his BMW and set the car on fire in the driveway. “

Now I know where you get your statistics…movies and headlines! Weak at best. I have personally seen a man take a chainsaw to cut his house in half, a man cut his wives arms off, one guy shot his GF with a spear gun, then slit her throat; one man tied a rope around his baby’s mother and tied the other end to the hitch on his truck and drove her all over town…this also happened recently in Texas I believe…..i could go on for dayzzzzzzzz…….

“I distinctly remember all the women in the theatre applauding and cheering her on. Then she sold all the rest of his stuff in a garage sale for $1 each. All the women in the theatre were saying "That's right! That's what he deserves!"

You statement are based on reactions to movies? Very scientific, I might add…..whats next? Cartoons?

"We're talking about emotionally unstable creatures."
Yes, humans are such animal, both men and women alike.

“If men had these kinds of histories, “
Which they do, i might add...
“the DV pitch might make sense, but we don't.”
We? are you appointing yourself the national spokesman?

“No man is going to burn the house down because he finds you with another man. “
It has happened. You need to get out more often….destroying property often goes hand in hand with violence…..its very common.

“If he walks in on you he might beat both your asses, but we might all understand that as a society.”

The defense is called “in the heat of passion” btw…..Only beat and not kill? I thought the prevention of violence is the object here…..

“After all, if you weren't acting like a ho, it might never have happened. But he's not going to burn the house down. “

Yes, save the house, but kill the people…??? And of course, the man is never the ho, right?

“My ex-wife's cousin, now that I think of it, put all of her husband's clothes in the bathtub and set it on fire, not realizing that the bathtub was made of flammable fiberglass. Damn near burned the fuckin house down. Had to dial 911 and had fire trucks all down the street. She was embarrassed to be seen by the neighbors for months."

You have increased your statistical database by 33% by adding another real life example…

“My point is that when we talk about DV, women's arguments only make sense if we assume that the males are the emotionally out of control parties, “

Courts don’t make that assumption, and it is an irrational statement at best.

“Most of the time this is true, in my experience”
Please expand on your experience? Is it personal, professional, or something else?

“who lose sight of what they are doing, and beat their wives. There's very little empirical evidence to support this, however.”

Sorry, its well documented ad nauseum……….google DV sometime…...

“All you really have are REPORTED cases, when we all know that generally men don't report. “
If it never gets reported, then how do you know it to be true? Who is “we” in the “we all know” and does we know this if it is never reported?? Telepathy? Black Magic?
Your statement is simply “Not true”, as there are a lot of DV cases which also involve children and a civil separation as well, and the husband is generally the breadwinner, and has easier access to money for legal help. They also know that whoever has DV history and/or arrests, that person will be on the defensive the whole time during divorce and child custody cases, and is generally the overall loser in the battle.

“Even in those cases that are reported, you so called social workers never look into CAUSATION, that is... how did it get to this point? If I fucked with you non-stop, all night, all weekend long, insulting you in all different kinds of ways as a woman, individual, and a human being, and wouldn't let you get a word in edgewise, kept cutting you off, talking over you, ranting and raving at the top of my lungs embarrassing you because the neighbors can hear me, at some point your cup might overflow too.”
NO, a real man would know when to cut his losses and get out of that relationship…..unless, of course, he is too stupid to know any better or he thrives on abuse…

Sound like you are only talking from your personal experiences, as your comments are not in touch with real world occurrences…..go kill some time at your local courthouse and sit in on some criminal DV cases and divorce proceedings and you will have your eyes opened.

“I say that in these situations, at least half of the responsibility, if not all, belongs to the out of control woman. If she doesn't have the discipline and the self control to express herself in a more constructive manner, then she has no right to complain about what happens when she finally pushes her man past his threshold. When she goes on one of these trips, all he really wants is for her to shut up and sit down. If he can't talk her into doing that, well. She's going to be made to shut up one way or the other.“

How macho! Sounds like you would possibly agree that if the crying baby doesn’t shut up, then making it shutup is ok? Do you like taking candy from a child? I certainly would hope not…

“You're not going to just keep ripping him to pieces while he sits there and takes it forever. If he can't talk to you, socking you might be the only way to make you shut up.
And then DV folks say "Well go for a walk." Why? Why is the man going to go for a walk or go drive around aimlessly when he's not the one out of control? “

Simple reason actually….since men are normally the primary aggressor it is in his best interest to cool off…its for his benefits so he doesn’t have to sit in jail and eat bread and bologna sandwiches ….what’s the alternative? Separate the parties, so no one has their world rocked by a DV arrest, because believe me, that is a lose-lose situation for him. which is preferable? Choice #1 leave and cool off, or choice #2 jail, legal defense expenses, etc. That should be a no-brainer..

“Maybe he just wants to sit down and watch TV?”

There are TVS in jail and hotels too.

“ He can't because he has to leave home because this bitch is incapable of shutting up? That's not HIS fault. If anybody should be going for a walk it's her. What if it's late a night and he has to work the next day? “

Hotels, friends…park benchess..sure beat the local jailhouse, no? what if she has to work, or the children have to go to school?

“What if it's cold or raining? “

Raincoats, umbrellas, indoors…what if..? what if…? What if…?

“He has to go "for a walk" because this bitch is tripping? That's wrong. She has some responsibility to bring herself under control before things get out of hand. “

Yes, and if she is the primary aggressor (physically speaking), then she wins the DV arrest prizes…

“Otherwise, she has no room to complain. Ranting and raving and cogiendo rabietas is childish. For me, this is the Number One thing, far and above anything else, to avoid in a relationship. Fellas, if your woman exhibits any of the traits I just described, leave her ass immediately.”

Good advice, and would apply especially before the arguments get too far out of hand as well.

“It's appropriate in a Colombian board because the so-called "fire" that Colombianas have is in part what leads to these kinds of dilemnas. Find a woman who can explain her grievances like and adult, let you respond, and then knows when it's time to shut the fuck up.”

Lots of native and foreign women have that capability, as well as lots of men lacking that same maturity and desirable quality

“Well I appreciate that you closed your post with "It's just my opinion" MC, because that's all it really is. “

Yes, as is all of the posts on PBH…

“Before I answer your post, I've been a poster here and on Colombianblog for a fairly long time now. People who know me know that I do not just make things up. If I said it as fact, it's because it's true.”

Oh, please…stop with that! Because if you say it it is true……pardon me while I puke…post your statistical sources please…reputations amounts to diddily squat in internet forums……

“ If I didn't know I would say so. Where it's my opinion, I clearly label it. You're not really in a position to say otherwise, and I'm not going to sit here and argue it with you.”

But yet you are…..????

“Regarding your other information, you obviously don't have the same experience I do. In fact, although your screen name is "Miguel", I would guess you're probably female.”

You are a bright one, aren’t you?? But if I consider the source, this statement falls in line with the rest of your silly posting here..Yes, I am a closet femnazi, who’s sole purpose in life is to persecute all men … especially macho men……and dont confuse me with Miguel, as i am Miguel_Clavo.....=)

“If so, there in lies your confusion: a female is in no position to have any understanding of a man's thought process...”

And vice versa, no?

“don't give a damn how many cases you've seen.”

No need to pout…..Yep, real life cases only will confuse the issue,…yes, lets rely on the 3 situations and some movies and cartoons that you base your conclusion on..

“I'd furthermore like to point out that by the time the police arrive and the man is toted off to court, you have no idea how they actually arrived at that point, now do you? All you know is he hit her.”

Ignorance of police procedure and pure hogwash…just because you don’t see all the interviews of combatants, and witness, and the location and evaluation of evidence, and the investigation on the tv programs that you watch does not mean that all this does not occur, because it does. Read some DV crime reports sometime and educate yourself…I wish I had a dime for every DV report I wrote….i could have retired many moons ago.

“ But why?”

Good question…maybe an investigation is in order?

“Men don't go around just striking other men for no reason, so why did he hit her?”

Another good question! Maybe an investigation is in order?

“See every action has a cause, nothing happens "just because". That's what people like you would have us believe. “

Yup, we used to get paid “extra” to arrest people “just because”..In CA there is a felony “Just because” crime on the books…….and a “Stupid in Public” one too! =)

“And I'm not talking about just simple little words. I'm talking about out of control behavior. If Andre Rison beat Lisa Lopez' ass for burning his house down, I'd let him go. After all, it's her fault. That's what I'm talking about: provocation.”

Fantasyland: kill her for destroying property. That principle disappeared with the dinosaurs.
Civilized World: you cant kill someone over property.

“And that's the point that you seem to have missed in my post. Nothing happens "out of the blue."”

Actually, I don’t think I have missed anything? Every one of your comments was addressed, no?



Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 18, 2006, 12:09:

i really need to go Xmas shopping, so will adress the other post tonight......=)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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cam0940 says on Dec 18, 2006, 12:10:

Well Elmo, let's use your case as an example. What you might have done is come down on her very very hard on top of her head. Not necessarily as hard as you could, you don't want to cause any permanent damage. And not on her face or anything, because you probably don't want to leave any embarrassing marks or bruises that would be seen in public. But you DO want her to let go. If you hit her on top of her head hard enough, she'd be stunned a little bit and loosen up her bite. That's one of the two things you want. And when you do it you ask her "What's wrong with you? What are you doing?" The other thing you want is for her to remember that she can't be biting you till you bleed. She shouldn't be biting you at all, fuck that. Imagine if you had bit her. So let her know that there are consequences to that kind of behavior. Had you done that, I for one wouldn't be sitting her calling you garbage. I'd be calling you someone who had enough self respect to not let another person mutilate your body.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 18, 2006, 12:17:

I can understand your frustration, as i have heard it over and over again...but there is no place for DV in a civilized society...

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 18, 2006, 12:36:

Of Course she is a troll !! Quote esanch36:

"I can see that you are in fact proving everybody right in that your a troll."

I said so. UC said so.

But, Clavo carved out a new definition of a troll (an incorrect one) and said she is not.

And Mario, thinks her inquiry/criticism is a legitimate one. (Even though a year ago, he and I had World War III due to a more benign comment I made about these types of marraiges)

Ahhh yea, she's a troll.

Keep feedin' her guys


BTW Clavo, you are a funny guy. You said you are off to do Xmas shopping. An hour later, you're back on here with a mile long post.

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cam0940 says on Dec 18, 2006, 12:41:

Miguel_Clavo...
I read each Miguel_Clavo...

I read each line of your response. I've come to the conclusion that A) You know nothing about me, since you're trying to reduce everything I said to media and fiction and whatever else you said.

B) You're not interested in discussing real issues. What you're interested in is an argument. Incidentally, I'm not interested in arguing sources with you. That will make the thread much longer than it has to be. Unless you said something that was egregiously and obviously in error, I wouldn't even ask you about your sources.

In fact, the only reason to ask for sources is to find a secondary method of defense. If I give you something that challenges your prejudices, then you'll want the source of the information so that you can try to discredit it... anything to avoid conceding any validity to the other party. I've seen this far too often.

You told some horrible stories of men doing horrible things to their women. Who am I to question them? I accepted your stories at face value because I'm secure enough in my position to be able to do so. See the difference between you and me is that what you've said (regarding all the horrible things men have done) can be true without invalidating what I've written. But when you respond to my posts, you feel the need to--most often in most flimsy fashion--try to debunk each sentence in order to support YOUR position. You should not do that because it only makes you appear to be out of touch with reality. Why? Because the world is not black and white. In other words, some men can be horrible but that doesn't mean all women are innocent. Coming from my standpoint some women can be horrible premeditated schemers but that doesn't mean all men are innocent. You see, men AND women start shit.

But then DV counselors...trying to get them to acknowledge that is like pulling teeth. Everything's about what "he shouldn't do". Why not make it gender indifferent? My original question to sweetg30 was if a woman hits a man, does that make her garbage too? After all your typing, you still haven't answered that question and it doesn't surprise me because DV folks never want to counsel women. It's always about some shit what the man should have done differently. Don't you see how women in general could possibly...conceivably...pick up on that? When people in your field lay all of the onus for mature behavior on the male, you by extension are telling the female that none of that applies to them.

Bottom line: if you do not address women's roles in this shit, they never have a motivation to own their actions. In fact, if you don't talk to the women, they won't beleive there's anything wrong with the things they do.

The reason I wrote at length defending the men is precisely because there's already enough shit stacked up against the man. In a post-OJ world we don't really need to counsel men. Men already know what's up (for the most part). But women, women have never been addressed at large to say that it's not OK to hit your man with a shoe or whatever else is within arm's reach. Women haven't been told that it's not OK to be screaming so loud that the neighbors can hear you. You're on and on about the evils of men when you really don't need to preach that side of it. It's already out there.

By not writing a single syllable on women, you make it seem as though you really believe that the woman is generally speaking the victim. I will grant you that if the police get called, it's probably the woman calling, because very few men are going to pick up the police and call to say that their 110 lb partner hit them. But knowing that, you can't turn around and say that the numbers of DV arrests men v women is a meaningful indication of what's really going on.

And for your information, this is one of the two social issues I'm most familiar with. You make a lot of snide remarks designed to discredit and insult and that's fine if that's your writing style. But it doesn't change anything.

The handling of DV and the way we present the subject to the public at large is fucked up in this country. Which takes us almost full circle to why might a man choose a woman from a different country. Not because he wants to beat her, control her, because he's desperate, none of that. It's because he's tired of the bullshit.

There was one other part of your post I wanted to respond to and that's the part where I guessed you might be female and therefore in no position to assume a man's thought process.

Sweetg30 said that a man might hit a woman simply because he doesn't get his way. I said men don't think like that. The subject is men's thought processes. In that context, it doesn't make sense for you to respond by challenging my ability to understand women's thought processes. Stay on topic.

When I talked about bullies and teaching people how you want to be treated, these are proven psychological issues that are true regardless of gender, and no I'm not going to cut and paste a study. If you're not well-read enough to know that already, then that's your problem. It's not my job to educate you enough to have a conversation with me.

OK OK, maybe that last comment was a little mean. I just take offense to the overall tone of your posts towards me, which are filled with personal insults--mostly because what I wrote disagrees with your prejudices.

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Crazy4Cali says on Dec 18, 2006, 12:44:

Someome is watching me... RE Poco's comment: ie:
U.S.
When will you finish xxxxxxx,, the place is a mess.
COLOMBIA
When you finish the xxxx it will be wonderful,, is there anything I can do to help.


I'd better make sure the webcam isn't on automatic. That sound just like my life (and why I'm more than happy with my Colombiana).

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cam0940 says on Dec 18, 2006, 13:01:

Oh and one other thing: I never hinted that killing someone was the correct choice in any of these kinds of situations. What you wrote sounds as though that's what you're accusing me of. If you've killed someone, you've gone too far.

Which was really the point of bringing up the Bobbitts, Left Eye, and my ex-wife's cousin. If you're burning things up, mutilating people, and generally tripping, you've gone too far.

Your response to this was to come back and say "Well men do it too". But I wasn't talking about what men do, I was talking about what women do. A grown up way to handle the situation is to say "OK well here's what I think about Bobbitt, Left Eye, and the cousin. But now that you mention it, how about this guy who cut his wife's arms off?" You see, then you're not ignoring issues, you're addressing them. That's how grown ups have conversations. You deal with the immediate issue (women's behavior) and then you move on if there's another topic you want to talk about (men's behavior).

This way no one feels disrespected or ignored and everyone has a chance to be heard and acknowledged. Anything less is at best childish, and at worst uncivilized.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

aztec says on Dec 18, 2006, 15:50:

Just reread the origional... ...post. "I have a question, why do these men have to go to other country for a woman"

So, I want to say that we do not "have" to go to another country to find a woman. They are every where and plentiful. In fact there are so many women available at our "position" and stage of life that we men become jaded. I certainly was becoming so before I met my current wife. In many ways she probably saved my life.

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cam0940 says on Dec 18, 2006, 16:04:

Mario, that's because you've been taught that it's unacceptable and you've bought it on a gender specific basis. Had you been taught that it's not OK for either partner to resort to physical abuse on the other, that would change everything.

If a guy hit you, would you hit him back? Of course, and no one would think twice about it.

But if a woman hits you, it's supposed to be "more acceptable" somehow. We're supposed to just take it and say "Well, she snapped and it's not cool, but I'm just going to let it go."

Do you see the dilemna this puts the feminist in? If you're equal, and you hit me, I should knock you the fuck out. But in DV, feminists scream the loudest that we are, in fact, not equal, because I should respond to a woman differently than I should respond to a man. They make me sick.

But at the same time, I am not saying it's OK for YOU to come home from a hard day's work and whale on your wife. That's wrong. It's not OK for you to rip her apart verbally and think there's just no limit to it. If we're talking about two adults in a relationship, each one has to be responsible for his/her own actions, and each one has to understand that his/her forms of communication (physical and/or verbally abusive) could lead to bad outcomes. We all have a choice as to how we want to express ourselves to our partners; we should be choosing civilized, mature forms of communication. My problem with the whole DV propaganda is that it doesn't fully explore how these problems happen. Miguel_Clavo talked about "investigations". DV detectives don't give a fuck, 90% of the time the arresting officers can't even accurately report what happened. Then you go to a Mickey Mouse arraignment where--unless the victim shows up to speak--all the judge or state has to work with is what's written in the report. And you become a statistic.

I'm annoyed by all that, but I'm about problem solving and I think we need to go deeper into the so-called "statistics". Miguel_Clavo, first of all, most police officers don't even like to respond to DV calls. They don't give a shit about getting the story right, a DV call is about covering their own ass. Unless the husband is bloodied beyond anyone being able to question their call, he's going to arrest the man. When a police officer comes to your house, what he's thinking is "How do I not get sued for fucking this up?" and the most sure way to do that is to arrest the man. If he gets called there, he's got to take someone, and all he wants to do is limit his own personal exposure to the extent possible. That's why when you see the report later on that doesn't sound anything like what actually happened, you can understand that the police officer is trying to make it very clear why he toted the husband off. If he writes a suspect ass report, such as "Mario restrained his wife from driving drunk for her own safety", Mario might find a crafty lawyer to come back and show how the police officer fucked it up. So the report probably sounded more like "Suspect became angry after arguing with victim. Suspect grabbed victim and dragged her into the house. Victim was hysterical. Victim refused medical attention." Etcetera etcetera. Judge reads that and it sounds like Mario can't control his anger and resorts to manhandling his wife. Then YOU come on PBH and try to tell us that that's what DV is about. Spare me.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 18, 2006, 19:29:

Back from Xmas shopping at ! “You see Miguel, first of all, if it's OK for a woman to cut a man's picha off, burn his house down, or even just to slap him, you're holding the woman to a lesser standard of self control than you're holding the man, which is bullshit.”

Ok, counselor, where did I say it was ok for a woman to commit an act of violence upon a man? You are delusional.

“Secondly, just like a little bully on the playground, if you don't respond when that person throws something at you or strikes you, then you're teaching that person what they can get away with, and they will do it again. Subconciously that person records "OK, last time I slapped him he cowed away like a bitch. So that's a pretty good indication of what he'll do next time." And that's how it happens the second time, the third time, and so on. If she hits you, you either leave her right then or you hit her back. The argument for hitting her back is simple: by her hitting you, she's telling you that physical contact is--in her mind--an acceptable form of communication. She's communicating her frustration, anger, whatever by hitting you. So for you to try to respond to her by talking is not rational. If you ask me a question in Japanese and I answer in Spanish, I'd be a fool to thing you get it. I need to answer you in a language that you understand. So if you strike me, don't be surprised, don't expect to go running to the police, don't be screaming "Domestic Violence!" or any of that. The object of me striking you back is so that next time you get all worked up you'll hopefully stop to think "OK, if I hit him, there's something coming back. That's not going to be the end of it." Now you don't have to leave bruises, you don't have to leave black eyes. You just need to communicate to her that "Hey, we're not going to have this, you striking out at me whenever you want." I'm a husband/boyfriend/significant other. I'm not your child and I'm not your punching bag. So you think good and long before you throw that coaster at me. You think good and long before you slap me or punch me or whatever, because I WILL hit you back. I won't start the drama, because I'd rather watch HBO or play Xbox or something...I don't have time for foolishness. But if you're going to take it there, then I'll end it. I can sit down and communicate like 30 somethings ought to be able to. For me it doesn't matter how hairy the subject is, let's talk it out. But if you're going to start acting crazy and you have to express yourself by striking me, I'm sorry I'm just not going to sit there and take that from any person, I don't care who you are. “

]Hmmmm… lets educate you a bit….you are talking about playground violence? Between children? Look up the definition of Domestic Violence, please , so you don’t embarrass yourself in your posts. Violence between children, and between children and adults is not included, as there are specific criminal violations for that.

“I'm in LA just like you are,”

Actually I was born in East LA, but I live up north in San Jose.

“ and I'm here to tell you there's a LOT of women who keep hearing this bullshit that we say "Oh, a man should never hit a woman" and they believe it.”

Maybe because it is state law?...but it is also true that a woman can get arrested for hitting a man. The law doesn’t discriminate between the sexes in the statutes nor the enforcement.

“That's part of the reason they believe they can strike a man with impunity. They think they can do whatever they want and nothing's going to happen, but that's the wrong answer at my house. If you hit me, man or woman, the next time it crosses your mind you're going to remember what happened the LAST time. “

How macho! Sounds like a violence free household. Actually the law provides for both combatants to be arrested from the same incident…if they both hit each other, they both can be charged from the same incident….

“I really don't see how a DV counselor could argue with that. It's so sexist to say that the man is garbage if he strikes a woman. What you OUGHT to be preaching is that it is fundamentally wrong for one partner to strike the other, period. “

I have said that all along, have enforced it as such, and that is exactly what the CA law states and requires.

“f you do, don't go crying to the police or charitable organizations because the person hit you back. You're a hypocrite in those cases. You should be preaching that human beings are just that: human beings. There's only so much shit you can pile on top of him OR her. You keep prodding, provoking, and generally fucking with a human being, he/she is going to reach a tipping point. I'm not talking about voicing legitimate concerns or grievances, that's part of normal communication in a relationship. I'm talking about psychotic ranting and raving, making a scene in front of the neighbors, talking about mommas and insulting the other person's manhood or womanhood. There's only so much we--as human beings (man or woman)--can take before we explode. And some of us, like me, have very high thresholds, but it's not infinite. At some point the big mouth who's on the verbal abuse onslaught has to realize "OK I'm just about there" and then back off. In fact, I posit that some women do it just to see how far they can go BEFORE HE DOES blow up. Trying to break him. Trying to push him to that limit. Remember in high school how there was always one kid that got picked on? And all the cool kids used to just fuck with him? Well one day when that kid brings an Uzi to school and kills everybody, I think we have to ask whose fault that truly was? “

That is violence but not Domestic Violence…it’s a different topic, so lets stick to the topic and not cloud the issue.

“And some relationships/arguments are just like that. I'm not talking theory here, I'm not talking about what you learned while getting your sociology degree.”

Wrong guess…….Political Science.

“I'm talking about real life. I'm talking about serious issues that flaw the so called statistics that DV workers love to cite. I'll tell you who else knows what's really going on: police officers.”

Wow, are you on Pluto or what??? I WAS A COP FOR 27.5 YEARS!! (Caps used not to display anger, but to make a point.) I mentioned that in my initial post on this. Hence, per you, i must know whats really going on....

“Sit and talk to one. “
You are talking (chatting?) to one! what would you like to know??

“One officer told me that in his estimation maybe 90% of the guys he arrested were guys that were just getting fucked with to no end by their partners. Some of the women WANTED the man to go to jail for a few days because they were mad at him, so they kept fucking with him and intentionally pushed him to do whatever he did, so they could run and call 911. It's bullshit. “

I guess that would depend on your definition of “fucked with”…getting fucked with does not justify violence upon ones spouse……get it? Got it? Good! =)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 18, 2006, 19:33:

G5 gets crossed off my Christmas list this year! "But, Clavo carved out a new definition of a troll (an incorrect one) and said she is not."

Sorry, G5 please point out where I offered a definition of “Troll”? and who gives a shit about what Wikipedia or any other dictionary describes as a Troll….Typical lame lawyering..if it is found in a book, then it must be set in concrete….thats why there are so many booksmart lawyers who are stupid when it comes to common sense……

"BTW Clavo, you are a funny guy. You said you are off to do Xmas shopping. An hour later, you're back on here with a mile long post."

I know all those macho men online at the time were waiting with baited breathes for my response, so I complied….i wouldn’t want them to get violent or wet their pants waiting…=) and mile long post? i went to the G5 school of post writing...and quit complaining about people putting words in you mouth when you do the same...shame on you, counselor! now, sit down again and be seen and not heard! =)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 18, 2006, 19:47:

Just finished dinner...... “I read each line of your response. I've come to the conclusion that A) You know nothing about me, since you're trying to reduce everything I said to media and fiction and whatever else you said.”

I get it, because of your internet forum reputation, your posts are supposed to be fact? Right, I will put that on my things to remember list…..????

“B) You're not interested in discussing real issues. What you're interested in is an argument. Incidentally, I'm not interested in arguing sources with you.”

You don’t have any sources…=(…and I was discussing real issues…next time don’t bring a knife to a gun fight……!!!

“ That will make the thread much longer than it has to be. Unless you said something that was egregiously and obviously in error, I wouldn't even ask you about your sources.
In fact, the only reason to ask for sources is to find a secondary method of defense. If I give you something that challenges your prejudices, then you'll want the source of the information so that you can try to discredit it... anything to avoid conceding any validity to the other party. I've seen this far too often.”

No, actually it is calling someone on their shit talking post…you throw out these ridiculous stats, which I would venture that you made up…..=(

“You told some horrible stories of men doing horrible things to their women. Who am I to question them? I accepted your stories at face value because I'm secure enough in my position to be able to do so. See the difference between you and me is that what you've said (regarding all the horrible things men have done) can be true without invalidating what I've written. But when you respond to my posts, you feel the need to--most often in most flimsy fashion--try to debunk each sentence in order to support YOUR position. “

Obviously you are vision impaired, as you somehow missed the sentence that I mentioned that I was relaying my experience as a cop …….and you say my approach is flimsy???

“You should not do that because it only makes you appear to be out of touch with reality.”

Out of touch with reality? I know, I should go talk to a cop, right????? Cops would be in a position to know about these thing, right, like you posted? Thank you for making my case for me…..but, seriously, I did not need your help….this was like taking candy from a baby….=)

“Why? Because the world is not black and white. In other words, some men can be horrible but that doesn't mean all women are innocent. Coming from my standpoint some women can be horrible premeditated schemers but that doesn't mean all men are innocent. You see, men AND women start shit.”

I agree, and both women and men go to jail for DV…..so where is the argument?

“But then DV counselors...trying to get them to acknowledge that is like pulling teeth. Everything's about what "he shouldn't do". Why not make it gender indifferent? My original question to sweetg30 was if a woman hits a man, does that make her garbage too? “

I am not a DV counselor, and yes, if a woman hits a man, then she is also a piece of shit and garbage, especially if it is done in front of the children….deja vu! I think I have written those words before….!

“After all your typing, you still haven't answered that question and it doesn't surprise me because DV folks never want to counsel women. It's always about some shit what the man should have done differently. Don't you see how women in general could possibly...conceivably...pick up on that? When people in your field lay all of the onus for mature behavior on the male, you by extension are telling the female that none of that applies to them.”

Hmmm….In my field? I guess you must think I am a DV counselor? Wrong…..

“Bottom line: if you do not address women's roles in this shit, they never have a motivation to own their actions. In fact, if you don't talk to the women, they won't beleive there's anything wrong with the things they do.
The reason I wrote at length defending the men is precisely because there's already enough shit stacked up against the man. In a post-OJ world we don't really need to counsel men. Men already know what's up (for the most part). But women, women have never been addressed at large to say that it's not OK to hit your man with a shoe or whatever else is within arm's reach. Women haven't been told that it's not OK to be screaming so loud that the neighbors can hear you. You're on and on about the evils of men when you really don't need to preach that side of it. It's already out there.”

I agree, once again, that is it not OK for anyone in a domestic relationship to use violence on the other.

“By not writing a single syllable on women, you make it seem as though you really believe that the woman is generally speaking the victim. I will grant you that if the police get called, it's probably the woman calling, because very few men are going to pick up the police and call to say that their 110 lb partner hit them. But knowing that, you can't turn around and say that the numbers of DV arrests men v women is a meaningful indication of what's really going on.”

After careful investigations, the primary aggressor gets placed in the pokey, and if they both need to go to jail to stop the cycle of violence (normally for repeat calls for police services), so be it…..

“And for your information, this is one of the two social issues I'm most familiar with.”

Yeah, that’s obvious……NOT! I seriously question your qualifications in this, as it is obvious you are not familiar with the system…..

“You make a lot of snide remarks designed to discredit and insult and that's fine if that's your writing style. But it doesn't change anything.
The handling of DV and the way we present the subject to the public at large is fucked up in this country. Which takes us almost full circle to why might a man choose a woman from a different country. Not because he wants to beat her, control her, because he's desperate, none of that. It's because he's tired of the bullshit. “

If you care to research it, I actually posted an agreement to your post regarding why a foreign woman would be a better selection for a wife. My disagreement with you is your putting forth the idiotic idea that it is Ok for a domestic partner/spouse/GF/BF/ etc to use violence on the other. I disagree with you…..

“There was one other part of your post I wanted to respond to and that's the part where I guessed you might be female and therefore in no position to assume a man's thought process.
Sweetg30 said that a man might hit a woman simply because he doesn't get his way. I said men don't think like that. The subject is men's thought processes. In that context, it doesn't make sense for you to respond by challenging my ability to understand women's thought processes. Stay on topic.”

Mentioning that I must be a female is on topic? Or were you just tired of the bitchslapping you are getting? Men hit women all the time because of that…and vice versa….where have you been? Pluto?? Who challenged your ability to understand womens thought processes? ..this is really getting weird….

“When I talked about bullies and teaching people how you want to be treated, these are proven psychological issues that are true regardless of gender, and no I'm not going to cut and paste a study. If you're not well-read enough to know that already, then that's your problem. It's not my job to educate you enough to have a conversation with me. “

Sorry, your ignorance on the matter is really astounding…you mention numerical statistics based on what, 3 situations you might be familiar with, and a friggin movie, for Christ sake? And you do not provide support to your numbers?? Who needs the education here? Damn, this was a walk in the park..who is next??! =)

“OK OK, maybe that last comment was a little mean. I just take offense to the overall tone of your posts towards me, which are filled with personal insults--mostly because what I wrote disagrees with your prejudices.”

Sorry if you are so sensitive, but please do show me where I called you names? What prejudices? Because I say violence in domestic relationships has no place in a civilized society? Someone agrees with me and disagrees with you in CA, since it is a state law….thats a no-brainer, isn’t it?

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 18, 2006, 19:52:

Clavo It's too easy to rattle your cage. It is the one way I know for sure that even when I'm not posting for a month, you will still find a way to drag my name into a thread somewhere. I know I know, I shouldn't flatter myself. Nonetheless, it's true.

BTW, Miss USA is going to be "Decrowned" in the AM. Would like to offer her some concilatory words? On the other hand, she will probably be showing up at a photo shoot with Penthouse next week, so it's not the end of the world.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 18, 2006, 19:55:

Dessert was excellent! “Oh and one other thing: I never hinted that killing someone was the correct choice in any of these kinds of situations. What you wrote sounds as though that's what you're accusing me of. If you've killed someone, you've gone too far.
Which was really the point of bringing up the Bobbitts, Left Eye, and my ex-wife's cousin. If you're burning things up, mutilating people, and generally tripping, you've gone too far.
Your response to this was to come back and say "Well men do it too".”

Yes, and when men do it, they get arrested…and when women do it, they get arrested…really, it is not complicated at all……=)

“ But I wasn't talking about what men do, I was talking about what women do. A grown up way to handle the situation is to say "OK well here's what I think about Bobbitt, Left Eye, and the cousin. But now that you mention it, how about this guy who cut his wife's arms off?" You see, then you're not ignoring issues, you're addressing them. That's how grown ups have
conversations. “

I guess that makes me what, a non-grown up Femnazi? =)

“You deal with the immediate issue (women's behavior) and then you move on if there's another topic you want to talk about (men's behavior). “

Anyone else hear that Twilight Zone music???

“This way no one feels disrespected or ignored and everyone has a chance to be heard and acknowledged. Anything less is at best childish, and at worst uncivilized. “

“Mario, that's because you've been taught that it's unacceptable and you've bought it on a gender specific basis. Had you been taught that it's not OK for either partner to resort to physical abuse on the other, that would change everything.”

Damn, how many times do you need to be told that if either partner resorts to violence, the jailtime it is!

“If a guy hit you, would you hit him back? Of course, and no one would think twice about it.
But if a woman hits you, it's supposed to be "more acceptable" somehow. We're supposed to just take it and say "Well, she snapped and it's not cool, but I'm just going to let it go." “

The law doesn’t discriminate between the sexes, please understand that.

“Do you see the dilemna this puts the feminist in? If you're equal, and you hit me, I should knock you the fuck out. But in DV, feminists scream the loudest that we are, in fact, not equal, because I should respond to a woman differently than I should respond to a man. They make me sick.
But at the same time, I am not saying it's OK for YOU to come home from a hard day's work and whale on your wife. “

Now you are getting it!

“That's wrong. It's not OK for you to rip her apart verbally and think there's just no limit to it. If we're talking about two adults in a relationship, each one has to be responsible for his/her own actions, and each one has to understand that his/her forms of communication (physical and/or verbally abusive) could lead to bad outcomes. We all have a choice as to how we want to express ourselves to our partners; we should be choosing civilized, mature forms of communication. My problem with the whole DV propaganda is that it doesn't fully explore how these problems happen. “
“Miguel_Clavo talked about "investigations". DV detectives don't give a fuck, 90% of the time the arresting officers can't even accurately report what happened. Then you go to a Mickey Mouse arraignment where--unless the victim shows up to speak--all the judge or state has to work with is what's written in the report. And you become a statistic. “

Like I said, your ignorance of the process is truly astounding…what do you know of a DV investigation? How many of them have you conducted?? And since you live in CA, DV is a very hot topic in law enforcement, and professional investigations are conducted. I guess it was your cat this time that gave you the 90% number? Or Goofy?? And to educate you once again, the victim does NOT show up at the arraignment! I know, I know, Donald Duck told you that, right? Read up on what goes on at an arraignment…you are embarrassing yourself now…If you were really “familiar with this subject matter” you would know that the DA’s in CA can prosecute WITHOUT the victims testimony!!!

“I'm annoyed by all that, but I'm about problem solving and I think we need to go deeper into the so-called "statistics". Miguel_Clavo, first of all, most police officers don't even like to respond to DV calls. “

Tell me more about what cops like and don’t like to do…I am interested in hearing about this…how would you know? Are you a cop? Based on your posts, it is obvious you don’t have a clue.

“They don't give a shit about getting the story right, a DV call is about covering their own ass. Unless the husband is bloodied beyond anyone being able to question their call, he's going to arrest the man. When a police officer comes to your house, what he's thinking is "How do I not get sued for fucking this up?" and the most sure way to do that is to arrest the man. If he gets called there, he's got to take someone, and all he wants to do is limit his own personal exposure to the extent possible. That's why when you see the report later on that doesn't sound anything like what actually happened, you can understand that the police officer is trying to make it very clear why he toted the husband off. If he writes a suspect ass report, such as "Mario restrained his wife from driving drunk for her own safety", Mario might find a crafty lawyer to come back and show how the police officer fucked it up. So the report probably sounded more like "Suspect became angry after arguing with victim. Suspect grabbed victim and dragged her into the house. Victim was hysterical. Victim refused medical attention." Etcetera etcetera. Judge reads that and it sounds like Mario can't control his anger and resorts to manhandling his wife. Then YOU come on PBH and try to tell us that that's what DV is about. Spare me. “

I know….you are the true DV expert here…but the reality is you don’t know you’re a$$ from a hole in the ground….the DV law dictates what happens…..the discretion of the officer in DV cases was removed years, and I mean years, ago…….If Anyone has a mark on them, or based on the interviews, including witnesses, the primary aggressor can be identified (whether male of female), then the PA goes to the pokey and dances with Bubba or Ugly Betty. Hmmm, the best way of not getting sued is arresting the man? Sounds like a good way to get sued to me, arrest the man IF he is the victim…..your statements are silly and based on what you have “heard” and not experienced. You have no credibility. And the judge doesn’t hear anything until the matter goes to trial where both sides are given an opportunity to present their stories……..

Did I spare you enough, or would you like I continue?? =)


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Dec 18, 2006, 19:59:

Poco has the right idea: Find 'em, f*ck 'em, forget 'em.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 18, 2006, 20:04:

G5....definitely not rattled...i have the patience of Job...=) consider it my Xmas contribution to DV victims of both sexes....=)

Sorry Rufus, for the long post, but but most of the verbiage is quotes of cammies......those are the ones in " ", and my comments are below his...i didnt want him to miss the reference to what he posted!

G5....really, no one noticed you were gone.....i was gone for about 3 months, and used you as an example in a post when i returned...again, dont flatter yourself...i know, its a blow to your ego, but you will get over it..just like Mel G remarked...i mention you normally because you seem to be the type of person running around with the "kick me" sticker on your back......=)


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 18, 2006, 20:06:

I am starting to feel like Stobers when he was b-slapping our favorite barrister in a discussion on domestic politics......;)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elchantajista says on Dec 18, 2006, 20:08:

friend of mine Friend of mine go hit with a hot plate of food and cafe'in the face; he knock her down and bruised her up pretty good.He went to jail and she told everybod he was a cowardly wife beater,because of his past no one wanted to hear his side of the story .She never talk to him again, got the house, money and he was out on his ass on the streets.
anda de parranda en Bogota
"Vicente"

anda de parranda al Juanchito "Vicente"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 18, 2006, 20:16:

Need to run to the store for some Coronas and limes....BRB Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 18, 2006, 20:23:

Was your lawyer G5., Mario? i will be the first one to admit the criminal justice system in CA needs revamping.....Cops were the most vocal against the DV laws because originally, the victims complaint of pain, and not visible injuries was all that was needed...and it did not take a brain surgeon to predict the abuses.....DV laws were not popular with cops because of the potential abuses, and thier discretion was removed. But on the other hand, the cycle of violence had to be broken, as more and more people were being killed by their spouses....
But unfortunately the way the law is written the PA goes to jail, if there is marks or witnesses in CA...then the trial judge or jury determines what is reasonable and what is criminal...."lawyers" including the judges, take over from their....and we all know what the result is from there....

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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goin_south says on Dec 18, 2006, 20:25:

I was starting to think I missed pbh tonight, but then... I logged in for a moment.
Fa-La-La-La-La,...la, la, la. laaaaa.
rufus, you need evelyn woods.

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 18, 2006, 20:44:

But in CA, the discretion has been removed, as in your case the PA would be the female. and in a restaurant there should be some witnesses possibly....the female would have gone to jail, IMHO....but remember, that the cop doesnt write the law, he job is to enforce it per the legislature with judicial oversight....

but my question is, does one stay and continue the fight, or is it not smarter to avoid the legal ramifications and get the F out of there?? because in all reality, even if you are found not guilty in court, the lawyer still keeps your $$....no?

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 18, 2006, 20:59:

i have a friend who is a cop (wma43), he went to Cali and found a hot Calena...he thought he did his homework to prevent a citizenship chaser. Married her, and lived together for 1 1/2 yrs....she has her green card. His mistake was he only really wanted to get a hot housekeeper while he played cop for the work benefits, and played in his rock band for fun. He treated her like she was just a maid, and she took offense to it. Oh, he did his pre-nup the right way, but failed to videotape the entire meeting. Well, things were not going well, and somehow she got a black eye! His version: she did it to herself, while planning on divorcing him asap AFTER getting her green card. Using the federal DV law, she is now able to petition for citizenship by herself, and the wait for citizenship is decreased by 2 years (?) i believe.....
Her version: he got angry with her because she find some letters from his GF, and so he popped her. he gets arrested for DV, place on Admin Leave with Pay, has his weapons taken from him, based on a 3 year TRO. Now, he can not be a cop if he cannot carry a gun....if he is convicted of DV, he will not be able to possess a firearm for 10 years.....his job is gone either way...Moral of Story: if it gets to the point where you might want to batter your spouse, is it not better to get the F out of their Before it happens? or do you hit the person, so they wont do it again??

PS...i think he did hit her, btw...and if that is true, then he gets what he deserves, friend or no friend, he should know better...if she is lying, then his lawyer should be able to put up a good defense...



Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 18, 2006, 21:00:

G5..btw....after New Years, my resolution is to be a kindler, and gentler PBHr! =) so i will go easy on you next year! =)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 18, 2006, 21:27:

Anyway you look at it, Mario, it is the wiser choice!!! Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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elchantajista says on Dec 18, 2006, 23:31:

one problem Some women have a tendercy to get an equilizer like a knife or a gun; speaking from experiences. It's like a wise guy movie, u wake up to gun pointed at your head.

anda de parranda en Bogota
"Vicente"

anda de parranda al Juanchito "Vicente"

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Dec 18, 2006, 23:37:

Rubito you are right about that. Guys are stronger, have bigger muscles, longer reach in general. Shut up and walk out. Arguing with anybody out of control is just plain stupid. Now if you happen to care about this other person (male or female) it's even more important to take that walk. I can't imagine myself in cam's position listening and putting up to constant harassment and harping days in and days out; I just wouldn't be around for that. I'd think that I was definitely married to a wrong person.

Cheers,
Desi


«Sé que los seres humanos y los peces podrán coexistir en paz». ( George W. Bush, Saginaw 29-09-00)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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gringolondinense says on Dec 19, 2006, 03:08:

I agree with Cam.... Everyone has a threshold. If youre pushed too far, as nice a person as you might be, you might have a moment of madness and do something in that split second. "Temporary insanity" does exist.

Ive seen it all. Ive seen girlfriends of male friends attack them with knives, nearly crash the car on the motorway at 70mph coz shes in "a mood".

If a woman hits a guy, the guy is supposed to "put up with it". One time in london, I saw a guy and girl walking along. The girl punched the guy in the face 2 or 3 times. Cops were walking by on the opposite side and had a clear view. Guy tries to calm the girl down and the girl hits him again. The cops just walked off. Did shit all about it. However, what if that guy retaliated and hit the girl? He'd be in the shit bigtime of course.

Everyone knows there are wife beating men around that do hit their wives for no apparent reason other than they are taking out their anger on them. That aint on.

But if youre a guy whos been denied sleep for months on end by endless bitching, physical violence from your lady etc and that guy snaps, I dont have any complaints against him. Respect works both ways.

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gringolondinense says on Dec 19, 2006, 03:13:

by the way Desi saying "shut up and walk out" is easily said. Some women will be physical and stop the guy "walking out". They will bolt/ lock the door, grab your clothes / hair. The only way to "walk out" is get physical with the girl and push her out of the way (if you can). But then thats assault.

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gringolondinense says on Dec 19, 2006, 03:14:

Check out that film "Misery" based on the book by Stephen King. The woman breaks the guy's ankles with a sledgehammer to stop him leaving her. lol!!

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 19, 2006, 07:32:

GL My question would be why would you or anyone (male or female) remain in an abusive relationship? one where you will get harrassed 24/7, or pushed to your so-called "limit" of "temporary insanity"? doesnt sound like it is working to me. Time to bail, if you ask me. The alternative is to batter the person when you reached your personal boiling point, then its time to do the jailhouse rock, right? Better to get out a relationship before it explodes, and much cheaper $$.

and i dont know about the British DV laws, but no one in CA expects a man to "suck it up" and not defend himself while he is getting beat up. That is a very popular misconeption, since the law doesnt discriminate between the sexes....there are plenty of female DV suspects in the CA court systems.......

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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gringolondinense says on Dec 19, 2006, 07:46:

actually I didnt say the alternative is to batter the girl. I said push her out the way. Im saying that a guy might push the girl and she might fall or something and do some damage.

Anyone in court can be made to look like the bully. "Hes bigger than I am". Its already been said on this thread that men are bigger, stronger have more muscles etc than the woman.

Anyway bollocks im not saying any more than that.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 19, 2006, 08:07:

if you push a person, male or female,and he/she falls & injures himself/herself, that is also battery.....bollocks....

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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gringolondinense says on Dec 19, 2006, 08:20:

oh ok so.... you should just stay in the house like a lemon and remain there till your girl lets you out. Nice one. Obviously you need a reality check (deleted).

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 19, 2006, 08:37:

yes, and you are obviously a fine specimen of an intelligent man you shouldnt participate in thread about DV when obviously you know nothing about it...it must be playtime at your childcare school, no?.....toodles!!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 19, 2006, 08:39:

Please, GL, give me a reality check, please, please, please!! Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 19, 2006, 08:49:

And please dont be so insensitive to my feelings, Machoman....=( jajajajjajaja.....

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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podborski says on Dec 19, 2006, 09:27:

when Lorena Bobbit mutilated her husband for whatever he did, the response was 'you go girl'. She had lots of public support.

If a man did the same thing, there would have been national protest marches headed by women screaming that all men are violent animals.

Just the way it seems to me.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 19, 2006, 09:40:

Yup, shit happens when you abuse your spouse...moral of story: dont abuse your spouse, or get the F out of that relationship...funny you mention it, i actually met that JW Bobbit guy one time..after his "accident" he toured the country as a "celebrity" to help raise $$ for his "repair job"...his PR angle was that he might show his NotSoBigAnyMore organ to the paying gawkers....my friends and i were paid to provide security for his event..he never did show that badboy, obviously, as there are laws against that in CA......

but you are right, PB, public opinion can be a strange beast...but fortunately, the court system uses the rule of law and not rule of public opinion in CA....and it takes much less than that to get the FemNazis out in force!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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vicshere says on Dec 19, 2006, 09:47:

man talk about a thread gone stupid......this is has gone insane.....don't you people have better thing to talk about....I am embarrassed to even be typing on this thread.....

listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic

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podborski says on Dec 19, 2006, 09:53:

I'm sure Bobbit was no prize but as you say m-c, it's the public attitude that bugs me. I have no doubt men are more violent than women, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Just because a few knuckleheaded men are violent, doesn't mean we all are.

I never understood these ´marches to take back the night' either. What, like rapists are watching these parades and saying 'gee, guess I'll stop'?

Seems to me they are more political propaganda aimed at blaming all men for the actions of a few.

Oh, and how about all the women who get off scott free after killing their sleeping 'abusive husband'? What, like they can't walk out the door while he sleeps?

The feminazis have definitely won the public opinion war, but every once in a while I feel the need to put in my 2 cents worth of disagreement.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 19, 2006, 10:26:

I hear ya......sometimes i have no sympathy for the men who do abuse their wives, and then get their asses kicked or worse by the "little lady"....there are alot of legitimate abuse cases....buti have been involved in the other side as well....my very first arrest as a new cop for DV involved a 250 lb woman who slapped the dogshit out of her 110 lb husband, all over which TV channel to watch!

to answer your question, i think that justice nor the common good is served by activist judges in those cases where the man (think OJ) or the woman gets off...what a travesty of justice...but thanks to lawyers, it is possible more and more often....of course the woman should walk out, just like the man....

the femnazis are wearing out their welcome, and i expect the pendulum to be swinging the other way....as it does, every 10 years or so...

Anyone familiar with current DV laws in Colombia?

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 19, 2006, 10:37:

But i would rather be singing "Vamos a la playa" by the band Righeira than "Vamos a la pinta" by myself! (la pinta is Mexican slang for the jail...home to many homeys!)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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ed_norton says on Dec 19, 2006, 10:38:

gomezman5 i used to be a hall monitor too.

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ed_norton says on Dec 19, 2006, 10:47:

mario.............what's up with the violence? i think gomezman5 is right about you.
don't be hatin'..............

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ed_norton says on Dec 19, 2006, 10:52:

where's all the love in this room? american women are infinitely'less" desiarable than colombiana's.
they have forgotten all values and want to make reservations for dinner.
american women are disposable.
like toilet paper.
use once......throw away......get it gomezman5!!!!!!!!!

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alleycat says on Dec 19, 2006, 19:34:

huh? "american women are infinitely'less" desiarable than colombiana's"
have you seen tara conner recently? talk about good-looking and feisty to boot. never seen a colombiana this pretty and sexy.

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goin_south says on Dec 19, 2006, 21:33:

"...seen tara conner recently? .... talk about good-looking and feisty to boot. never seen a colombiana this pretty and sexy."

alleycat, then....I THINK YOU HAVEN'T BEEN LOOKING TOO FAR; must have head in sand.

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Dec 19, 2006, 21:36:

Hey, I've been busy the last few days; what happened to all of Sweetg_30's posts? ya'll ran her back into the Roosevelt Square?

"Tengo mucha compasión para....
...la gentes de La Manzana Grande."

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Dec 19, 2006, 21:41:

I'm with ya Vic..shere! ".....don't you people have better thing to talk about....??"

No sh*t Vic! It's Christmas, and ... There is money to be made! and spent! Who's got time for this PBS Trash Talk?

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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elchantajista says on Dec 19, 2006, 22:35:

i think sweetgangster30 a ella esta aburrida con todo el mondo y a ella quiere deshacerse de usteds
anda de parranda y buscar la concha en Cali, oye google Sofia Vergara and see what u think then Alleycat, but no doubt Tara Conner is a hottie!!!!!!!!
"Vicente"

anda de parranda al Juanchito "Vicente"

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jinksmiester says on Dec 19, 2006, 23:04:

why not find a great lady in colombia? colombia..one of the lowest divorce rates on the planet...(i guess they take there marraige vows more serious that north american woman and men).they treat there men good...and from what i can see they have very good morals and family values....not to mention colombian woman...(most)are beautiful...inside and out...
i did,nt have to go there to find a wife...i chose too.
as a canadian manny of the ladys ive met here seem to carry excess baggage...not just in problems from other relationships...but also around there waist and ass,
and the west it seems has adopted a lifestyle where marraige...like everything else is disposable....these days you turn on the tv and you may find an add for ashley maddison...a website that specializes in helping people cheat on there mates...(hard to find good values in country that has lost its morals and values)to much emphasis on possetions and money.
im sorry...but manny of the ladys ive met here have said...blah blah..ive got a big fancy house and nice fancy car etc...and all i could think was to run from that and wonder what poor s.o.b.got taken to the cleaners in divorce court to pay for all that stuff.i met my wife by chance..i like to travel...and she was too good to pass up...i bring her home as my equal in all things...i don,t exsect her to cook and clean and take care of me....i exspect we take care of each other and share everthing including the work.i will give her my heart and my love ,hounor,and respect and im sure she will do the same for me.possetions are not what is important to me...hounor and family values are what matters.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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goin_south says on Dec 19, 2006, 23:18:

I agree with you about alot of things, jinksmiester, but there's just as much of the same 'let's move upscale' attitude in Colombia, I think, too. Who doesn't? Everywhere, everyone wants to live a more comfortable life of convenience, and many are willing to jump from one boat to another, to do it.

And, I don't know if it's more or less than N. America, but from what I have read (and, read) and talked to some Colombians... they don't have to get divorced either, because.... they never were married; only living together, having children, and maybe staying or not.

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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jinksmiester says on Dec 20, 2006, 00:30:

in all relatioships there is a chance it will not succeed..lets face it there are bound to be problems ..nothing is perfect...having said that i love and trust my wife and bieng married to her is the only way we will ever be together as immigration canada would never let her in this country unless she is my wife...there is a slight (very slight)possibilty she may have been allowed to come here for a period of time under what canada calls a conjugual relationship...but that would mean applying and waiting about a year...perhaps more..and likley they would have refused it...unlike the u.s. there is no such thing as a fiancee visa.we did not have the option of just living together ...if we had that it would have been fine with me...im not religious and i see nothing wrong with that...and i don,t think wearing a ring makes things any different(not these days)...hounor and commitment has to come from who you are...the ring means jackshit without the that.
im sure there is plenty of divirce in colombia as well....but knowing my wifes family and others ive met there over the last three years ..it would seem that family is very important...the familys ive come to know are very close knit.and maintaining ties with them i know will be important if i exspect my relationship to succeed...im happy to do that ....they are great people...and my family to now.
anyhow i believe in her ..and i believe in me....kay sira ..sira...what will be...will be

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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sweetg30 says on Dec 20, 2006, 04:58:

Elmo, no se que decirte querido Pero me imagino que debe existir una colombian o cualquiera mujer dispuesta a pasar el tiempo contigo sin tener necesidad de que le pagues. pero yo no estoy en tus zapatos.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 20, 2006, 04:59:

Gringolondinese, I've seen those pic's too It's kind of scary.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 20, 2006, 05:05:

Cam0940, Something tells me your wife/girlfriend, special friend would have something to say about that, I don't think when a 5'1, 100 pounds woman, gets hit by her 6'0, 250 pounds husband to the point she has to be hospitilized and is her fault. But according to you is, believe me I really don't care for your comments, I never argue with the abuser, in this case you.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 20, 2006, 05:08:

Thank you, Miguel Clavo I found a real man, a man that's not scare of a woman and that tells it like it's.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 20, 2006, 05:13:

Thank you, Elmo I found another man!

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sweetg30 says on Dec 20, 2006, 05:26:

I'm in shock "don't want to leave any embarrassing marks or bruises that would be seen in public." You seem to have a lot of experience and knowledge about DV behavior.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 20, 2006, 05:40:

Thanks Mario I found another man.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 20, 2006, 06:29:

Guys one more thing in case you don't know this, real abusers don't need to have excuses to hit their wifes/girlfriends/significant other, and these women selfsteem is so low and are so scared that won't try to defend themselves or try to call for help. They know better, all they try to do is avoid confrontation and try not to get their husband,boyfriend, significant other angry but what they don't know is that it doesn't matter what they do or don't do, these men like to abuse women. They wont try to fight another man because they know they might risk getting their ass kick, the woman is a safer choice. Most of these men never change and that's what the "victims" need to understand before they end up dead. And it gets more complicated if they have kids, I've seen some pretty graphic pic's and I'm not talking about black eyes, I'm talking about woman and her two kids decapitated and I could keep on going on. Some of you have very good points, women do get arrested too for DV but not as much as men.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 20, 2006, 06:37:

If you are in an abusive relationship Why would you stay? good question, women sometime think there's no way out and they're so scared for their life that they think no matter where they go the abuser will find them, they decide to stay. Others are used to that kind of behavior because their father was an abuser, they think is normal.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 20, 2006, 06:42:

This was a long time ago I once got into an argument with un costeño,that tried to hit me, I had a book and hit him so hard that I broke his mouth,after that his brother took him away and I though about calling the cops on him, I was with my mom and my little brother, good thing I didn't because I would got arrested. By the way that same guy use to hit his wife and she was there, telling him to hit me.

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podborski says on Dec 20, 2006, 07:20:

I know these abused women have huge problems but it is VERY hard for someone like me to understand how you don't just walk away from it. I know you could tell me a thousand reasons why not, but I have yet to hear one that makes sense to me.

(I'm talking about NA here, where there are shelters and at least some form of support. I could understand some very poor people have few options, although they must have survived somehow before getting into an abusive relationship.)

They had to change laws regarding DV as often when the police show up at the scene the abused spouse doesn't want to lay charges.

I'm all in favour of severe penalties for all crimes involving violence. But it's the same 'civil liberties' and other left wing types that complain about DV that oppose tough jail sentences.

So what am I supposed to do about it????

And I will NEVER believe that killing a sleeping spouse 'in self defense' is legitimate. (Although I MIGHT buy the argument it was a crime of passion or revenge, worthy of a slightly lesser penalty)

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sweetg30 says on Dec 20, 2006, 07:47:

If I feel that's the only way to get rid of him/her i might do it, these women are too scared and it's not about revenge in most cases is about true fear for their lives and their kids lives. Some of these men would go after their wife and kill her and her kids or kill the kids just to teach her a lesson. Most of these women were weak and with selfesteem problems before they got into this type of relationships, If you're an abuser you're not going to get with me, because I'll cut your balls off and eat them for breakfast if you try that hitting crap on me or my kid, I'm half joking, but there are signs for these kind of behavior before the abuse starts. I have three friends(non job related, this is way before I work with DV) that explained to me that they felt like they were in a black hole and there was no way out. They got hit in the street in front of their kids and they felt worthless. DV is very complicated.

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gringolondinense says on Dec 20, 2006, 07:53:

we can just ask George Bush to launch "Operation: Infininte Justice (Part II): The Reprise". This will clear up any crime, since everyone will be dead. Amen.

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gringolondinense says on Dec 20, 2006, 07:56:

* Sponsored by McDonalds.

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ed_norton says on Dec 20, 2006, 10:53:

i thought the topic here was "why american men need foreign wome american women have become too masculine and their values and domesticity has become virtually non existant.they have lost all innocence and forgot that the simple things in life are always the best.
i don't want a woman that only makes "reservations" for dinner and spends the bulk of her time grooming and shopping for material goods.
of course, women can be found in america, but it is increasingly hard to find the ones that have the complete package.
i am 55 and have been with 100's of women in the states but have recently became enchanted with a colombiana and am finding her quite refreshing. i could find a chick here on a phone call , the trouble with that is those days (for me) are over.

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podborski says on Dec 20, 2006, 12:38:

yeah we are way off topic huh? I think there are some great women in NA, how could there not be, but my complaint is that it is so hard to meet them, for whatever reasons. Things definitely became more difficult (in Canada at least) over the last 15 years. I just don't think it helps to have a culture where smiling at a woman is considered 'leering' unless you happen to look like Brad Pitt.

There are also a lot of NA women that just want a big house in the burbs and 2 cars plus a nanny and private schools for the kids, all of which sounds like a 50 year prison sentence to me, lol!

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alleycat says on Dec 20, 2006, 13:05:

i don't know about canada but in the u.s. you just have to be patient and you'll find someone you like. you mention brad pitt. if you're chasing women who want someone with exceptional looks like pitt, and you are more average, obviously you're going to have trouble. does anybody really believe that women from CA or SA don't rank looks high on their wish list? they're just like women from NA. regarding materialism; there's plenty of women who value other things far more than consumerism but you have to look in the right places. start with intellectual and artistic women. i will say this about emphasis upon money: more of the recent generation of u.s. women highly value earning capacity. i've noticed this has changed pretty significantly in just a generation. you have to, however, just look harder. i know it's easier to hop on a plane and seek out someone living in relative desperation.

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Crazy4Cali says on Dec 20, 2006, 18:52:

desperate...but not serious Yet another person who believes that everyone who lives south of the border is "living in desperation."

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 20, 2006, 18:57:

All I can say is: Go BEARS !

Now you all really know what hijacking is.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 20, 2006, 19:50:

G5......its only bear-ly a hijacking!! =) oh shit, my 21.5 hours on PBH is up!!!!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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alleycat says on Dec 20, 2006, 19:56:

i've always wondered if all these guys who dislike american women have mothers, sisters, daughters, etc. must make for some awkward and tense moments. lol

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goin_south says on Dec 20, 2006, 21:41:

Mario, did you maybe mean: No 'Contraceptive Continuity'? lol

when are you headin south? any day now??

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 20, 2006, 21:48:

Alleycat.......now it all makes sense For years I've wondered why I don't like my sister. Now I know, it's becasue she is American. Damn....to think it was simple as that. And I thought it was some deep psychosis that only Clavo would understand/

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goin_south says on Dec 20, 2006, 21:51:

Si, Alleycat.... .

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Dec 20, 2006, 21:52:

Si, Alleycat.... ..sorry for the triple post

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Dec 20, 2006, 21:53:

Si, Alleycat.... neurotic mother.. who never stops talking... (and isn't even Jewish/Italian.)
hateful, abusive and manipulative ex-.... (I'm buying her a pair of combat boots for Christmas, with a one-way ticket to Iraq.) (She's been S L O W E D.... to ONLY the Passive-Aggressive mode now, by the courts, however)...jaja
And, a daughter caught in the middle of the two. whooooooh!

Hell, dude. Colombia seems peaceful as a waterfall, by the time I arrive.... lol! (I'm accustomed to 'looking over my shoulder', and keeping my peripheral vision wide as a fish lens. jeje!)

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 20, 2006, 22:53:

Naw, G5, its the hereditary gene pool that you dont like!...=) And i can certainly understand that! i bet she could enlighten us about you! Maybe explain a few thing relative to your postings, no??? =)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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sweetg30 says on Dec 21, 2006, 07:52:

weird family "neurotic mother.. who never stops talking... (and isn't even Jewish.)"I didn't know Jewish people like to talk a lot, that explains why my husband talks non stop.
"hateful, abusive and manipulative ex...." I wonder how she became such a monster or if she was like that and you decided to get with her or maybe you have something to do with her behavior, just maybe.

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gringolondinense says on Dec 21, 2006, 08:03:

hahah sweetg!! that was a great uppercut! :-). Get those claws out

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sweetg30 says on Dec 21, 2006, 08:15:

Gringolondinese Nojodas!

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gringolondinense says on Dec 21, 2006, 08:26:

Hahhah! ok i wont hahah! you just have a great way of "stimulating converstation" lol! :-)

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sweetg30 says on Dec 21, 2006, 08:32:

I'll take that as a compliment mi abuelo siempre me dice que sea una aboagada, por que si no las gano las empato o si no las embolato, pero la cosa es que nunca pierdo.

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gringolondinense says on Dec 21, 2006, 08:44:

hahaha... well thats cute! I know you dont back down that easily lol!!!

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sweetg30 says on Dec 21, 2006, 09:05:

No I don't People don't think by looking at me that I can be such a "troublemaker" I always get the "oh you're so sweet and nice" and inside me, I'm laughing and thinking: if you only knew, the kind of devil you're dealing with, you will run lol

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sweetg30 says on Dec 21, 2006, 09:34:

Morphus, I have plenty of pic's But I don't give out my pic anymore, I'm done with that. My husband wouldn't like me sharing my pic in the Internet. I was out with him one time when we begging dating and some weird guy came over to the table and asked: are you sweetg? wow, you're Colombian right? and I had to hear the you look like your pic crap and I didn't want to interrupt, while my date was sitting there looking at me. So I don't give out my pic, I don't want you to recognize me in the street and interrupt my meal.

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gringolondinense says on Dec 21, 2006, 09:39:

post one with the face cut out! lol!

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goin_south says on Dec 21, 2006, 17:11:

Sweetg_30something, YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN: I stopped giving her excess cash,
and stopped letting her steal money from my checkbook,
and she started doing the MONSTER MASH.
lol
Don't ask more, cause you couldn't handle the details. jeje

Otherwise, I had little to do with her transformation...;) I'm an angel in disguise.

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Dec 21, 2006, 17:21:

Hey, Sweet you better stop; if this thread gets much longer, it's going to be in the running for 'longest thread ever', and SOME ONE POSTER isn't going to like that, and you'll wake up one morning and PUFFFFF! It'll be gone!

"Tengo mucha compasión para el loro VERDE"; the poor bird is (not) going to wake up one morning, cause he talked back too much and...he's gone. lol

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Dec 21, 2006, 17:24:

Let's talk about Colombia... and water falls, ... Leticia, and Pink Dolphins; Pasto, Laguna de la Coche, and Vulcan Galeras. The lost city. Emeralds and Gold. Festival of the week. Old Colonial Cartagena. Bogota and Botero. Gettin your hambone boiled in Barranquilla! Popayan/the White City. A B and Mountain-Biking the Andes.

"Tengo mucha compasión para el diablo en SweetP."

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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jay1234 says on Dec 21, 2006, 17:57:

Response to OP Go Spurs, Go!!! Ooops, sorry, got into highjacking for a minute...the reason we have to go to other countries is that our beautiful babies are too lazy or otherwise unable to get here without our help.

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goin_south says on Dec 21, 2006, 18:31:

Hay jay... head 'em up, move em out, ride em in...
I think I'm takin a road trip down I-10 sat night 2 C those Spurs get stung by the Hornets.

"Tengo mucha compasión para Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, san antonio."
nawwwh. I'm a SA fan; got about 100 D Robinson rookies to sell.

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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elchantajista says on Dec 21, 2006, 20:26:

what is the most entries recorded on a thread

anda de parranda en Bogota
"Vicente"

anda de parranda al Juanchito "Vicente"

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goin_south says on Dec 21, 2006, 21:02:

not sure, elchantajista but, I think Arthur B has the most 'ENTREES' on a thread.

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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jay1234 says on Dec 22, 2006, 08:21:

Let's support sweetg in getting longest thread... galecito- Come on, my man! The Hornets? They are only 9 games behind SA...and it's an away game, which is good for us...watch Ellson put the smack down...oh, and to keep the thread police off of me...uhmmm...sweetg, isn't it sexist to only complain about men who go to other countries? Why give the ladies a free pass on finding foreign mates? Shouldn't part of the question address why foreign women (aside from gold diggers/visa chasers) are interested in gringos who come to their country?

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sweetg30 says on Dec 22, 2006, 19:11:

hahaha very funny galecito galecito el graciosito, if one day the poster is gone, what can you do,that's life

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sweetg30 says on Dec 22, 2006, 19:14:

fair question jay1234 I guess they're tired of dealing with the bulls** of many men and decide to give a try to the gringos.

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famsearch says on Dec 22, 2006, 19:17:

what about those mets? just doing my part to keep the thread going... lol
dan

dan

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sweetg30 says on Dec 22, 2006, 19:17:

mario 250 or more were written by him que malo que eres but thanks for supportting my lost cause

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aztec says on Dec 22, 2006, 19:29:

A man would have to be... ...stupid to continue to look for a relationship with North American women. The only reason is that they don't know any better.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 22, 2006, 19:51:

Everyone here (for the most part, i hope!) is aware of Red Flags for the Colombiana wishing to come to the US "for all the wrong reasons", etc....but what advice would you give to a Colombiana who is a good friend, or relative, regarding the Red Flags to look out for in a Gringo???

This should get the thread moving again, no? =) This is an oppurtunity for the Colombiana PBHers to thrill us with their observations....=)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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elchantajista says on Dec 22, 2006, 20:52:

oye sweet Talked to my lil colmbiana last night and she's ready to come back and stay with me, I guess it's true what they say; let'em go and if they come back it was meant to be, we never did really stopped seeing each other but it was long distance and I didn't really care for that, she gettig rid of a situation and then maybe????????? I've got 21/2 years invested in this girl so, not to mention on hell of a rollercoaster ride of emotions lol but i guess that happens when u care for a super hottie, don't have to mess with a visa and all that she has her mica and all her papers.

anda de parranda en Bogota
"Vicente"

anda de parranda al Juanchito "Vicente"

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goin_south says on Dec 22, 2006, 21:00:

and, 'gringodiego' wrote another 20, 30, or so... that were deleted, when 'he' was deleted, thereby shortening the 'longest thread ever'.

VAMOS! HOMBRES, Y COLOMBIANAS.

Dulcitag30 could be an anti-heroin of sorts here, afterall.
Ciao, El Martillo!

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Dec 22, 2006, 21:00:

Clarify, famsearch! You mean: LOS METROPOLITANOS!

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Dec 22, 2006, 21:01:

de DOS CIUDADES MISMOS "Tengo mucha compasión para el loro."

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 22, 2006, 21:47:

why did gringo diego get launched? i was too busy for about 3 months to post here, so it must of happened when i was misbehavin myself....jajaj...

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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goin_south says on Dec 22, 2006, 22:04:

please, M_C.....'gringodiego' I think he told someone, maybe el martillo, to 'go F*** himself' in succession, 3x's in a row, after el martillo was babbling endlessly on into oblivion about how ....
you know how 'he-and-only-he-does-and-can-do-it'.

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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elchantajista says on Dec 23, 2006, 02:59:

sancho como se llama un hombre que es un sancho en Colombia, hay otro palabra o es la misma cosa

anda de parranda en Bogota
"Vicente"

anda de parranda al Juanchito "Vicente"

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 23, 2006, 03:15:

Welcome to Gas Town Yea I said it. Gas Town because there is a lot of hot air being thrown areound on this thread.

Also, If anyone is going to stretch this thread out.....it will be me. Watch.

Mario
Did you fail arithmetic somewhere along the line? I find it strange how many posts that you claim that I made in my World Cup thread, when you never posted there once. BTW, did you actually go back and count the posts? I think not. The thread ran about 8 pages, and through page 5, I had only made about 60 something posts. I stopped at that point. So unless you think I made some 200 posts in the last 3 pages, your pie in the sky guess.......was wrong. Boy, I'll tell ya, there is nothing like proving a know it all wrong from the start. In fact, that thread was so well participated in, by so many people, it has to be one of the best ones ever on this forum. No fights. No attacks. (I cut that off at the beginning with someone)....just lively debate. Mario, I suggest you read it and .......you can learn something about soccer, and ......with all due respect, improve your arithmetic.
In the meantime,,,,,speaking of this thread.

As someone said,...(a few people actually had pointed out about half way through this thread), there is nothing constructive going on here. Nothing informative in any way shape or form. And it appears....sorry Clavo, it is being extended just for the same of saying that it is going to be extended to beat the number of posts on my World Cup thread. (Clavo..That's in two posts now---but I will not flatter myself too much) Oh.....pardon me, it was initially extended so a bunch of flirtatious guys can get their "rocks off" by flirting with a Colombian girl named SweetSomething, that happens to live "under a bridge" in NY....ain't that so gentlemen? .....Oh you guys are a riot.

Morphus
What would a G5 post be if he did not have the opportunity to address you. (assuming you were a participant of course) I have not arrived to that plush hotel room in Bog, so I guess I have to keep tuning into PBH from here (with the exception of this thread) so I can learn more about Colombia from a rather balmy Chicago. I am curious about one thing Morphus. Sweetie pie says she is married. She says that she had posted photos before and unfortunately for her, she was publicly embarrassed in front of her husband, so she decided not to post again. Yet you press the issue, and are so desperate to see photos of this girl, you publicly post your email (don't worry I will not put you on any porn lists) just for the purpose of asking her to send you pics of her. Yea.......I have to say Morphus, your quite a guy. And not I feel that much more confident about your advise and comments that you make here.....Sure I do.

OK kiddies.......fire away. I'm up for it. But please, don't force me to have to turn my PM off. Besides, if you keep it public, we can be sure that this thread will surpass the number of posts in my World Cup one, and then, although I am not the author, I can say with certainty that I was the one that eeeked this thread out to break the old G5 record. Or, in the alternative, you can just see me as Gas bag not worth responding to and let the old record stand. But me thinks that after this post, the chances of that happening are fairly slim.

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elchantajista says on Dec 23, 2006, 03:17:

echando piropo o dichos para recojer una colombiana favorite pick up lines and street compliments for our lovely colombianas por ejemplo
me gusta su piel canela i like your cinamon skin
anda de parranda y bucar la comida en Cali
"Vicente"

anda de parranda al Juanchito "Vicente"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 23, 2006, 09:25:

Sounds to me like Chicago is Gas Town...for at least 1 reason that i know of....G Town...must be the G in it or something....=)

"And it appears....sorry Clavo, it is being extended just for the same of saying that it is going to be extended to beat the number of posts on my World Cup thread. (Clavo..That's in two posts now---but I will not flatter myself too much)" can someone please interpret this? in english or spanish please?? i think this must be a slam on me somehow, but......

I think G5 is hatin on G30 because he "be jealous", hahahahaha....think about it, a "high-falutin" G-Town barrister being upstaged and thrown out like yesterdays newspaper by a NYC so-called Troll who lives under a bridge???? That is CNN headlines material!!!! Tis the season for miracles, indeed......=)

"Oh.....pardon me, it was initially extended so a bunch of flirtatious guys can get their "rocks off" by flirting with a Colombian girl named SweetSomething, that happens to live "under a bridge" in NY....ain't that so gentlemen? .....Oh you guys are a riot."

sorry, counselor, not all guys are flirting...some were pointing out her generalizations, etc, and attempted to educate her by responding to her OP question....and for you to pontificate about flirting, tell us again how your friends "whiskeria" in Bogota is NOT a brothel?? and seems like you have the type of personality who gets all moral and hating when others flirt, because you cant??? is it because you are lacking in this area or you are just hating on the flirt game, but not the brothel game??? Like they say, hate the game, not the playerzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................=)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 23, 2006, 09:28:

Hey, Galecito, isnt El Martillo one of those plastic Toys-R-Us childrens play tools?? the one that when you strike an object with it, it makes that "toootin" sound???? =)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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goin_south says on Dec 23, 2006, 11:18:

penso que 'el martillo' esta poco celoso de dulcita30 "Tengo mucha compasión para el loro verde."
The parrot will never hear the end of it - never mind, Desi.
okay...!ahorita, regresa a las tiendas!

And, MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL THOSE WHO GO TO OTHER COUNTRY FOR...

.....WOMAN.

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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jay1234 says on Dec 23, 2006, 12:11:

Merry Christmas to all those who.... go to other country for....burra (Didn't want elmo to feel left out).

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goin_south says on Dec 23, 2006, 18:56:

"Also, If anyone is going to stretch this thread out.... " Gomezman5,...do you go to other country for...woman? We've never really heard so much about this, except for those,...what were they called? wiskerias? We've never heard, otherwise. Is the G5 married? Been married? to Colombiana? never? Mejicana? Otro?

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 23, 2006, 19:47:

there ya go again....worrying about the sex life of others, probably because all you get is the leftovers...i like women too much...assexual maybe!..hahahah...are are you homophobic morphie? most juicers are....=) but studies have shown that excessive weightlifting deadens the braincells, and represses true, shall i say, alternative lifestyles....in simple terms, they go out of their way to convince people that they are soooo manly, just to cover up the real inner self....sound familiar?


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 23, 2006, 19:50:

anyway, nice chatting with ya Morhp..its 8pm here in CA and time to go have a nice dinner, some Coronas, and to be mysterious.......hahahhaa...cya!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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scotty says on Jun 21, 2007, 02:59:

Before the thread went crazy I think the question posed was why do men HAVE to go to Colombia/SA to find a wife, or something to that effect.
First Im not sure that men HAVE to go, i think they want to go for many reasons.
Some guys go to SA to find their wife because they couldnt get a date in the US or Europe to save their soul. Some guys go to SA because they like latin women better. Some guys go to SA because they can, they have the money, the time, and they can and do go anywhere they want to go. Some guys have had negative experiences with north american or european women and have heard that the SA woman makes a better wife.I think there may be even more reasons why men travel to SA to find a wife. In my case I had a few negative experiences with the North American woman, i noticed sometime in the 1970's american women began to change from bad to worse and each decade following they became even more distant. It was becoming difficult to even talk to them, by the 1990's had all but just given up on american women i was losing interest in even being around them. A friend told me about Colombia and the women of that country, i took a plane to Cali, spent two weeks there and never looked at an american woman again.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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goin_south says on Jun 27, 2007, 18:26:

I have a question:

What's the purpose of listing the thread with the most posts?

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Jun 27, 2007, 18:28:

And, why did peter edit out the videos?
or, are they still here?

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 27, 2007, 18:30:

you trying to get this thread to beat G5's futbol one in # of posts???? jajajjajaj....how was your trip? any sightings of ColombiaMikeee?

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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goin_south says on Jun 28, 2007, 00:03:

jajaaaa....I think now you are Col_Mike. in reverse, eh? M_C...C_M.

Look. Early Monday Morning, AeroRepublic's computers were 'confused'. And, I went to Gate 8, as my handwritten boarding pass stated. And, feeling quite comfortable as I always do/have in Colombia.... proceeded to get on the plane. The boarding pass stated: Cali, along with the correct flight number for which I was scheduled.

About a half hour into the flight....early on sunrise.... I started wondering....WHY IS THE SUN RISING FROM THE WEST???? JEJEEE.

About that time, I started to notice the INCREDIBLE SCENERY AS ONE LANDS IN BUCARAMANGA! jajaa

More of the story..... later.

So..... yeah, I wasn't too far from Colombia_Mike's territory, up there in ..... Valledupar.
I was almost hoping the pilot would tell me to get off the F*qn Plane because I was going to have to stay in Bucaramanga for a few days.... (if not a lifetime....jejeee!)

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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manINred says on Jun 28, 2007, 09:52:

People go all over the place to find partners that they like.

It just happens, and could happen anywhere, as simple as that.

I'm sure there are sites about Ecuador or Mongolia or France where people ask "why do people have to come to our countries to find women...?"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 28, 2007, 11:14:

47 more to beat the Futbol post...jajajja.......and what an appropriate topic, too! jajajjaja

unfortunately, i am not as hilarious as Mikeey is with his anti-gringo posts....late night PBH has not been that much fun lately.......he needs to return....i thought he had with the recent Spanglish post but i am not so sure.......=)

but on my next trip i will meet him and see if he is a real human.....not a virtual personality....=)

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jun 28, 2007, 12:36:

Nope, Miguel, that's not him,

Cheers,
Desi

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 28, 2007, 12:45:

damn.....back to detective school...i thought the "bashitos para Desi" was CM.....we know he is fond of you.....=)

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jun 28, 2007, 13:09:

Nope, that was another friend of mine:) from another forum posting under the same handle as always.

Cheers,
Desi

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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goin_south says on Jul 15, 2007, 00:01:

Why do Gringos go to Colombia to chase Latinas.

Why was that new thread begun? Shouldn't it just have been a continuation here?

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Jul 15, 2007, 00:03:

Why do Gringos go to Colombia to chase Latinas.
When Miami and California and texas has lots of latinas.
We dont have Taco bells here in Colombia and yet them gringos keep runnig down
here looking for Tacos.

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 15, 2007, 00:59:

hey, maybe Vup=Sweetg30??? Sweetg30 stopped posting about the same time mikee started.....hmmmmmmm......very suspicious, i say!

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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goin_south says on Jul 15, 2007, 01:19:

""Don't generalize I thought you had already addressed this topic in another thread.""

there is even one before this one.... where's it at?

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 15, 2007, 01:57:

i have been here about a year and a half, and i am sure it was discussed since the 1998 when this site was started or so.....and if you were to go to those pervert mongering sites, it has been discussed continuously ad nauseum......

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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bogjudge says on Aug 5, 2007, 15:48:

Why? Why not?

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." -- Mark Twain

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RussianFred says on Aug 24, 2007, 11:04:

It's cheaper that then the USA and Europe.

Annual Drug Deaths: Tobacco: 395,000, Alcohol: 125,000, 'Legal' Drugs: 38,000, Illegal Drug Overdoses: 5,200, Marijuana: 0. Considering government subsidies of tobacco, just what is our government protecting us from in the drug war?--Ralph Nader

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gold digger says on Sep 2, 2007, 10:55:

South American women are still feminine. I asked one of my girlfriends (USA) why she didn't wear dresses or skirts and she got pissed off at me. ???
They also still take care of their man not like the typical American chic who can't even cook a hotdog in the microwave.
I like going into bars and meeting women. Of course they ask what kind of car I drive and what I do for work, trying to see how much money I make. I tell them I drive a chevy cavalier or some basic car. Then I make sure they see me driving away in my BMW. Their expressions are priceless. I hate gold diggers!

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goin_south says on Sep 2, 2007, 12:11:

g d.... you rent a BMW, in Colombia?

Oh, yeah,... and it absolutely spoils a man, when a latina 'r, colombiana meets him as the shower curtain opens, with a warm towel in hand, to help... :))

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

RussianFred says on Sep 2, 2007, 15:59:

Women are basicly the same all over the world. The golddiggers in South America want a nice home. Where as in America they want the home, benz and money. My last marriage was three years. I paid all the bills, a mortgage of 6k, and had 4 cars. My ex-wife said I did nothing for her that no other man wouldn't do! She is now living in an apartment. American women are more materialistic because o the media and the culture. "I want it all now!"

Annual Drug Deaths: Tobacco: 395,000, Alcohol: 125,000, 'Legal' Drugs: 38,000, Illegal Drug Overdoses: 5,200, Marijuana: 0. Considering government subsidies of tobacco, just what is our government protecting us from in the drug war?--Ralph Nader

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gold digger says on Sep 2, 2007, 20:17:

Own a BMW in Florida.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

goin_south says on Sep 2, 2007, 22:57:

...that wasn't what I asked.

So, your last paragraph in your last post here was in reference to usa, not colombia.
Do girlz in Colombia ask what type of car ya drivin, while in Colombia?

I mean, ... is it impressive in Colombia, when you say:
'Come out and see my new Schwinn?"

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

goin_south says on Sep 2, 2007, 22:59:

or, maybe:
Hey, Girl!
Look down!
Those are my new ECCOS!

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

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