Chavez wants to ban mini skirts

Alma del Norte (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 13, 2007, 06:48:

Man Tequila says on Nov 13, 2007, 06:50:

Did Colombia Mike hate mini skirts?

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Robert Jorge says on Nov 13, 2007, 07:05:

Cass - that was a link from yahoo news, citing another legit news source. I hardly think Pod made that up and published it here. Like all dictators, Chavez is slowly (actually quite rapidly) taking one freedom at a time away from the Venezuelan people. Radio, TV, property ownership rights, business rights, and now .... the straw that broke the camel's back in Elmo's case - possibly mini-skirts.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 13, 2007, 07:07:

Chavez has been lamenting the state of the revolution recently. Meat, milk, sugar and eggs are hard to come by, but imported whiskey and Hummers are abundant (General Motors is shipping 3000 Hummers to Venezuela and opening new dealerships). Maybe he'd have more credibility if he didn't wear a Cartier watch and order expensive custom suits to fit his ever-increasing frame.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/30/world/americas/30venezuela.html

I wanted access to health care, housing and education, but, no, I get potholes, trash and silicone tits instead. -Desi.

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Lowell says on Nov 13, 2007, 07:26:

Not funny. Sad and dangerous!

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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usher127 says on Nov 13, 2007, 07:40:

"Meat, milk, sugar and eggs are hard to come by"...
What did Chavez do this time? Did he slaughter all the cows and chickens in the middle of the night?
Come on... stop regurgitating imbred American journalism. There's more to life than popcorn!

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kalder says on Nov 13, 2007, 07:44:

Mao suits all round girls!

"A piece of cheese may entrap a mouse, but a bicycle could ensnare the Imperial Chancellor."~~An Bai Kuang

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christobeldawg says on Nov 13, 2007, 07:51:

no mas??

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 13, 2007, 07:55:

No, he instituted price controls and got the government involved with state stores. That leads to some or all of the following:

A. the market supplies less of an item
B. the item becomes more expensive
C. a black market develops, which can lead to more crime
D. inflation spreads to other items, even it they're not yet in short supply, because people hoard them

Chavez is not treading new ground. The Soviet Union tried and failed, Cuba tried and failed, Richard Nixon tried and failed and Argentina is trying and failing, too, with energy and beef prices.

I wanted access to health care, housing and education, but, no, I get potholes, trash and silicone tits instead. -Desi.

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Waterdawg says on Nov 13, 2007, 07:59:

Hey " Dawg " .. You have a phone number for those Leg's ?

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christobeldawg says on Nov 13, 2007, 08:02:

Well obviously it's not a Venezuelan number. Hey, you're a dawg too. Cool.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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Waterdawg says on Nov 13, 2007, 08:11:

Man I was born a " Dawg " way back when ... I bleed orange and Brown and did so on Sunday !

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slguy says on Nov 13, 2007, 08:15:

"What did Chavez do this time? Did he slaughter all the cows and chickens in the middle of the night?
Come on... stop regurgitating imbred American journalism"

Or maybe, you should looking at El Payaso thru rose-colored glasses.

Tinto is, as usual, correct. What frankly amazes me is that anyone with any education can still have any faith in a socialist system. Without question, plenty of countries need dramatic economic change, but socialism? How many times, and on what scale, does the socialist model need to fail before folks realize it's NOT a workable economic model?

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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usher127 says on Nov 13, 2007, 08:34:

hmm... plenty of democracies have failed too. America looks to be failing quite badly right now in many respects.

Anyways, if theyre so doomed to failure, why does America try so hard to make them fail? Alot of democracies would fail if they had to endure what Cuba puts up with... which at least in some important respects has certainly not failed.

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usher127 says on Nov 13, 2007, 08:36:

I dont mean to sound like a Fidel or Chavez nut, but its so tedious to hear sweeping statements about "socialism"...

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fill says on Nov 13, 2007, 08:37:

LA Times Hugo Chavez's criminal paradise

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-naim10nov10,0,1470504.story?...

fill

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Man Tequila says on Nov 13, 2007, 08:41:

I only swallowed some of Pod's lies. He got me with the ban on Hallowe'en. Only someone batshit insane would do that. Those liars at the BBC, espéce de Kalder tabernouche.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4391166.stm

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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usher127 says on Nov 13, 2007, 08:47:

So, Chavez is sick and tired of American culture swamping latin american... maybe he has a point... I didnt read that he was BANNING it... just putting his opinion across.

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kalder says on Nov 13, 2007, 10:34:

BBC- Imperialist lackey, bourgeoise running dog, bloodsucking Yankee propaganda etc. etc. Don't believe a word.

"A piece of cheese may entrap a mouse, but a bicycle could ensnare the Imperial Chancellor."~~An Bai Kuang

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kalder says on Nov 13, 2007, 10:35:

But Chavez is quite right. He should ban bloody Halloween.

"A piece of cheese may entrap a mouse, but a bicycle could ensnare the Imperial Chancellor."~~An Bai Kuang

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scotty says on Nov 13, 2007, 11:14:

ban mini skirts? who is this guy? he acts like the Taliban.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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kalder says on Nov 13, 2007, 11:33:

On the subject of the Taleban. I read that, after an exhausting day murdering women and children, they like nothing better than to unwind by painting each others' nails and putting on a little make-up. Seriously.

"A piece of cheese may entrap a mouse, but a bicycle could ensnare the Imperial Chancellor."~~An Bai Kuang

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Cerealkiller says on Nov 13, 2007, 11:43:

Chaves makes Ahmadinejad sound liberal hahaha. So how is he going to enforce the deep cleavage restrictions? Can you imagine cops stopping women randomly "sorry madam, I need to measure that cleavage"...

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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Colombiche says on Nov 13, 2007, 12:02:

Disculpe señorita, tenemos que confiscar su culifalda.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 13, 2007, 12:06:

Uy, pero me dejan tener mi hilo dental?

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Colombiche says on Nov 13, 2007, 12:07:

Manos arriba, calzones abajo
Si no se los baja
Yo se los bajo.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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slguy says on Nov 13, 2007, 12:26:

"hmm... plenty of democracies have failed too. America looks to be failing quite badly right now in many respects."

Anyways, if theyre so doomed to failure, why does America try so hard to make them fail? "

If that wasn't so naive, it would be laughable.

American capitalism has been alive and well for well over 200 years now. "America failing quite badly"? Seems to me we are the dominant force in the world today- hands down, no contest, by any measure- economic, military, political. Do we make mistakes? No question. Are some of them whoppers? Absolutely. But is America somehow "failing"? Don't make me giggle.

Quick, now- name a socialist system that lasted more than 100 years! And the USSR lasted WELL beyond any usefulness to it's citizens.

And what makes you think we are trying to so hard to make Chavez fail? We're pumping him full of oil money - not exactly an embargo, is it?

The Cuban embargo is strictly a placation of the boisterous exile community in Miami's activism- nothing more, nothing less. The average American finds it...silly, I think. But go to a cocktail party in much of Miami and express that opinion out loud. See what those crazy bastards do. So yes, The US government is officially enforcing an embargo- but it's NOT representative of the will of the average American.

We Americans elect governments that make HUGE mistakes sometimes- but generally when that happens, the next election cycle rectifies this problem. What do you figure Brother Payaso's country can do about HIS mistakes, or the people of Cuba can do about Fidel's mistakes?

So tell me again, please, how America is failing- ESPECIALLY relative to any/all of your socialist brothers' governments.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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eywed says on Nov 13, 2007, 14:31:

I feel we all might get a better idea of what we are dealing with here if we all post a few pictures on the subject.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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billyb says on Nov 13, 2007, 14:35:

very good idea eywed.Now what payaso in his right mind would want to ban that? You take away the catholic school girl mini away and you cut a strippers income in half.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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usher127 says on Nov 13, 2007, 14:37:

"Seems to me we are the dominant force in the world today- hands down, no contest, by any measure- economic, military, political"

Economic - granted your not doing badly... but somehow, many people still live without basic human rights in america... great combination!

Military - yes, you have accumulated too many weapons and frequently put them to bad use... over the last 100 years... arguably more than any other country... though ultimately, despite all the gear, there arent too many succussful wars that spring to mind or ones that were worth fighting...

Political - is that a joke? I dont know where to begin, how is american politics anything to admire.. its money... its the same families again and again... its content is watered down for the tv audience, its meaningless... you can relect another government as many times as you like...

Culture - how many people here left the US for Colombia because theyre sick of the rat race... of living in a society where the only value is 'having it all'... thanks to american culture we've gone from 'one love/one peace' to 'don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like me'...

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billyb says on Nov 13, 2007, 14:41:

you are 100% right Usher, there was never any war in the world before the US, it was all peace and love, and it was all led by the always peaceful Europe.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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eywed says on Nov 13, 2007, 14:48:

I getting a better picture of the sistution and I'm thinking chavez is an idiot.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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billyb says on Nov 13, 2007, 14:49:

Keep it up eywed, we need to sort this issue out.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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eywed says on Nov 13, 2007, 14:58:

Ok but this is the last one or I might have to get a handle on myself.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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billyb says on Nov 13, 2007, 15:15:

This might make us pause and get a grip of ourselves.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Man Tequila says on Nov 13, 2007, 15:26:

Maybe a few more pictures would grab my attention?

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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eywed says on Nov 13, 2007, 15:31:

ok but im going to have to be alone for a few after this.



Better get me a Cigarette boyz!!!!!!!!

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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eywed says on Nov 13, 2007, 15:33:

I hope peter or his pbh police dont Chavez my pictures.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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billyb says on Nov 13, 2007, 15:38:

I think they're bothering Cassini though.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Man Tequila says on Nov 13, 2007, 15:40:

That grabs my attention! I sure feel bad for being naive, and a swindler.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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eywed says on Nov 13, 2007, 15:42:

You could be right, think he is much fun?

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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eywed says on Nov 13, 2007, 15:43:

Shut up , Who cares , I got pictures to look at.Geeeeezzzz

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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Man Tequila says on Nov 13, 2007, 15:45:

I would be naive to think so. PSSSSST. Wanna buy an S? Shhhhhhhhh.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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slguy says on Nov 13, 2007, 15:56:

Just out of curiosity, Usher - I wonder how many americans live in Colombia, vs. how many Colombians live in the US? You REALLY think this is a category that supports your position????

Success is a pretty easy thing to shoot at, if you are looking for targets. But none of your arguments addressed my points.

Economic. Even you can't argue this one - except for your human rights crapola, which has nothing to do with economic might, even IF your premise was correct.

Military power? More crapola. Find an army, anywhere on earth, that wants the US pissed with them- except for our Islamic brothers and their 57 virgins waiting for them in eternity.

Political? Yep. we have our warts. Without question. But show me a place any larger than an isolated island that guarantees our basics- freedom of the press, freedom of speech, right to peacefully assemble (ummm....your heroes Chavez and Fidel leave a little to be desired on these fronts, don't they?), and on and on, and I'll admit that my arguments hold little water. The problem for you is- no such place exists.

The US is a vast, argumentative, sometimes fragmented society. There are without question, terrible injustices present in our society. But there's a reason we have so many people waiting in line to have a crack at the "American Dream".

There is no such place as Utopia - never has been, never will be. And anyone who believes that tyrannical socialist societies are the answer have either never lived in one, or are completely devoid of faith in humanity.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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billyb says on Nov 13, 2007, 15:58:

slguy, it was 72 virgins last time I looked at their benefits "package" :))

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Man Tequila says on Nov 13, 2007, 16:10:

Seventy-two, eh?

Hmm...

6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6 = 72

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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cali373 says on Nov 13, 2007, 16:17:

He is starting to sound like the Right wing Christian fundamentalists in the USA.

Smile if you are a thinker!

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eywed says on Nov 13, 2007, 16:19:

Are said virgins allowed to wear mini skirts? Staying on topic!

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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Man Tequila says on Nov 13, 2007, 16:20:

Thank you for keeping us focused, eywed.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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cali373 says on Nov 13, 2007, 16:27:

what does this have to do with Colombia?

Smile if you are a thinker!

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eywed says on Nov 13, 2007, 16:30:

Their Colombian mini skirts? yea that's it.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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Robert Jorge says on Nov 13, 2007, 18:14:

I am confused. Mini-skirts are a US influence? I sure don't see 'em here in the States like I see 'em in Villavicencio. And I thought mini-skirts were British and/or French in origin anyway.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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billyb says on Nov 13, 2007, 18:34:

I thought they were a Roman innovation improved upon by Colombia.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 13, 2007, 18:46:

.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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podborski says on Nov 13, 2007, 19:31:

Yes that evil Disney influence must be stopped, what Venezuela needs is more home grown figures like these Chavez supporters to emulate:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7084262.stm

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usher127 says on Nov 13, 2007, 20:00:

slguy... we must be boring everyone... we are the only ones left arguing...

Yep, loads of people have fled to the US in such of the big shiny American dream... I dont doubt it.

Anyway, we seem to be arguing for different things... all your points don't interest me...

I already acknowledged your economic might. Let's not forget that the US was terrified by the potential economic might of the USSR. But, who cares about economic might? Will you go to China in the next few years? My question was really about what you get as a result. It's a bit like saying Medellin has been transformed just because we've got some money to erect nice apartments and offices in Poblado... its just a small bubble that doesnt benefit the majority, so in some ways, who cares.

"Find an army, anywhere on earth, that wants the US pissed with them"... This is not a good way to speak considering recent history. But, again, so what? How does that benefit you as an American? Why don't you question why your government just spent 1.5 trillion on a weird war? Imagine what a less power hungry 'regime' might have done with those resources... something with positive 'social' consequences, heaven forbid no

Freedom of speech... well, technically it exists in 'democratic' countries, but the irony is, particularly in America, that governments just end up spending billions on advertising to ensure a certain mainstream way of thinking... again more money down the drain.

Anyways, its kind of ridiculous to argue capitalism vs. 'socialism' as they are both extreme cases and each case is a little different. But, I do think there is a case for saying 'the dury is still out' and let different political ideas mature and see what happens... but for some reason American has never been able to do that.

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billyb says on Nov 13, 2007, 20:13:

Let's get back to discussing The Great Satan, the Mini. I agree with Cassini, Chavez is right to ban such evil influences.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 13, 2007, 20:21:

The Great Satan, es verdad:

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 13, 2007, 20:38:

billyb says on Nov 13, 2007, 20:39:

They look evil to me.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 13, 2007, 20:41:

christobeldawg says on Nov 13, 2007, 21:12:

Any chance we could talk Chavez into limiting the ban to women over 50?

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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christobeldawg says on Nov 13, 2007, 21:41:

Is he also taking out camel toe jeans? That may lead to war.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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Dolfi says on Nov 14, 2007, 00:58:

As far as I see Yahoo has taken this information from an argentinian paper which publishes it without giving any sources for these alleged plans of Chavez. Could it be a commentary of the editor?

There´s nothing to be found in any serious media about banning mini skirts in a constitution. The whole idea seems ridicilous to me. Sounds very much like anti Chavez propaganda.

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podborski says on Nov 14, 2007, 02:00:

so Dolfi you would agree that if it is true, it's ridiculous, right?

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john_stark says on Nov 14, 2007, 06:21:

The gringos and Chavez - it's a match made in heaven. All this whining and weeping and wailing about what a bad bad man he is. And the whole time we're shoveling money at him as fast as we can. Same for our other bogeyman in Iran. We can't make him rich fast enough either.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 14, 2007, 07:13:

"Any chance we could talk Chavez into limiting the ban to women over 50?" (Christobel)



Legs is the only part of female body that never age...miniskirts look good on older women, look at Tina Turner!

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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christobeldawg says on Nov 14, 2007, 09:26:

It was 2 am when I said that Desi, and I went to bed thinking I shouldn't have said it. You're right.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 14, 2007, 10:04:

:)
I've been known to say the weirdest things at 2 a.m too....

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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christobeldawg says on Nov 14, 2007, 10:46:

thanks for turning the other cheek, so to speak, amiga nueva.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 14, 2007, 11:04:

no worries, I got thicker skin than that, amigo nuevo :)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Robert Jorge says on Nov 14, 2007, 15:30:

Suadia Arabia (sic) is "the model of capitalism?" Hmmmm, no, not really. There is plenty of capitalism going on - but I would feel safe calling Saudi a theocracy. Sure, it is OK to have a profit motive and gain wealth in Saudi - but you have to be male, follow that wasabi (ha ha) doctrine, and the country is ruled by a King and his family. I could think of much better examples of capitalism.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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slguy says on Nov 14, 2007, 16:38:

RJ! Shhhhhhhh! You haven't noticed how little reality passes through a socialist's mind? I just noticed, myself. They prefer making everything about "oligarchs vs. The People". If you like 60's flashbacks, socialism is the place to be, I think.

Don't poke the monsters, man! ;) No matter HOW much fun it is! jajajajajjajaja

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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podborski says on Nov 14, 2007, 17:40:

there's no point arguing with these people, they can go visit Cuba and still come back believers, they are in denial.

it is fun to listen to some of their wacky ideas though, reminds me of my days in uni, debating guys who claimed the berlin wall was built to keep the west out, jajajajaja!

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la campiña (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 14, 2007, 17:45:

slguy says on Nov 14, 2007, 18:03:

Having spent a fair amount of time in Caracas, I'm comfortable saying this- if El Payaso really does any such silly thing about Venezolanas and miniskirts, he has committed a true crime against humanity! ;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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billyb says on Nov 14, 2007, 18:05:

I like Camps' theory best.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 14, 2007, 19:59:

I call for a full blown protest. The girls there should wear the shortest micro mini's possible. That will make Chavez think twice, and will certainly change BillyB's and my travel plans. Who thought we would be going to Venezuela? That would definitely call for an unexpected ROAD TRIP, for journalistic purposes only, of course.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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billyb says on Nov 14, 2007, 20:11:

Caracas here I come.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 14, 2007, 20:18:

I always think that I should not make silly remarks on serious threads but with the title of this thread, come on, there was no way to keep us out Billyb.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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manINred says on Nov 14, 2007, 20:19:

He also wants to ban Spanish kings

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7094148.stm

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christobeldawg says on Nov 14, 2007, 20:23:

For some reason, that doesn't bother me nearly as much. BillyB?

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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Colombiche says on Nov 14, 2007, 20:27:

I hope Chavez does NOT ban the Mr. Venezuela pageant.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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webmanco says on Nov 14, 2007, 20:30:

It was heard that Chavez wanted to ban Vallenatos

http://www.venelogia.com/archivos/1725/

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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Colombiche says on Nov 14, 2007, 20:32:

Is he banning Juanes too? What are the boys in the tight shorts going to sing now?

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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la campiña (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 14, 2007, 20:37:

la campiña (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 14, 2007, 20:46:

Dolfi says on Nov 15, 2007, 00:36:

Still no evidence for this alleged ban in Venezuela apart from that one notice in an argentinain paper. As far as I know it is a generally accepted principle of discussion, that anybody putting forth a proposition (with a claim to truth) has to provide evidence for it.

One should disregard the whole sutff as it is not worth any discussion. It is revealing though how much americans take anything for true that fits into their ideological scheme of things. We now that e.g. from tha WMDs in Iraq.

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eywed says on Nov 15, 2007, 02:18:

Gave us an excuse to post some nice pictures but some im sure are offended.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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slguy says on Nov 15, 2007, 06:24:

man, you socialist types have ZERO sense of humor. it must be difficult, always searching for ways us imperialists keep the masses downtrodden.

Do you guys honestly believe we give a rat's ass about this flakey bit of entertaining "news"? it's an excuse to have some fun with you serious socialists, nothing more, nothing less.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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billyb says on Nov 15, 2007, 06:32:

slguy, you are so right, i think they have to have a humor bypass to join the socialist party.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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billyb says on Nov 15, 2007, 06:40:

Elmo, maybe you should go there for lunch today and get us some visual aids.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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billyb says on Nov 15, 2007, 06:50:

It might be far Elmo, but you would be doing a great kindness for you fellow PBHrs.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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LA_MONA says on Nov 15, 2007, 06:51:

Colombiche thanks for that video esos patones estan buenisimos ;-)

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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billyb says on Nov 15, 2007, 06:53:

Hey Mona and Colombiche, no highjacking this thread with that gay shit ;)

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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LA_MONA says on Nov 15, 2007, 06:57:

Jaja look Billy hagamos una cosa, you stick to listo pollo o whatever hell it's called, and we'll ogle the patones, estamos?

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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billyb says on Nov 15, 2007, 07:07:

A little upskirt would be nice, jeje.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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LA_MONA says on Nov 15, 2007, 07:08:

I'm sure there'll be plenty of all that stuff in NorCal, no?

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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billyb says on Nov 15, 2007, 07:11:

Yes, but diversity is nice and you can never get enough.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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LA_MONA says on Nov 15, 2007, 07:22:

"you can never get enough" cuidado billy, you're beginning to sound like morph and elmo ;-)

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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kalder says on Nov 15, 2007, 07:37:

What was your President doing there?

"A piece of cheese may entrap a mouse, but a bicycle could ensnare the Imperial Chancellor."~~An Bai Kuang

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slguy says on Nov 15, 2007, 07:50:

Looking for a trim, maybe.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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kalder says on Nov 15, 2007, 07:58:

A trim what?

"A piece of cheese may entrap a mouse, but a bicycle could ensnare the Imperial Chancellor."~~An Bai Kuang

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kalder says on Nov 15, 2007, 08:18:

Ah, that'd be it...I expect the First Lady's generation didn't go in for that sort of thing.

"A piece of cheese may entrap a mouse, but a bicycle could ensnare the Imperial Chancellor."~~An Bai Kuang

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kalder says on Nov 15, 2007, 08:27:

Laziness I should imagine.

"A piece of cheese may entrap a mouse, but a bicycle could ensnare the Imperial Chancellor."~~An Bai Kuang

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slguy says on Nov 15, 2007, 09:07:

jajajajajjajajajaj

Kalder, now THAT was funny!

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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kalder says on Nov 15, 2007, 12:26:

Oh thanks.

You're going on the 'Friends' list for that.

"A piece of cheese may entrap a mouse, but a bicycle could ensnare the Imperial Chancellor."~~An Bai Kuang

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slguy says on Nov 15, 2007, 12:29:

Except for you socialists, who refuse to believe any print media that doesn't include "Power to the People" in their masthead......here's an interesting article just up in the Miami Herald's online edition.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking_news/story/309076.html

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Man Tequila says on Nov 15, 2007, 12:50:

If the "curtains" do not match the "drapes", one could always dye "the hair down there".

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Colombiche says on Nov 15, 2007, 13:01:

Can't believe there are chicks out there that take the time to do this lol.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Man Tequila says on Nov 15, 2007, 13:05:

You would have to be pretty anal. Seems odd to me. Talk about high maintenance.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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podborski says on Nov 15, 2007, 13:25:

yeah but if more women knew that elmo and morphus were rolling around on the floor trying to look up their skirts, they might be tempted to go the extra mile no?

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billyb says on Nov 15, 2007, 15:14:

If we have a secret santa on PBH, whoever gets Elmo or Morph knows that patent leather shoes are always appreciated.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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usher127 says on Nov 15, 2007, 16:53:

"so Dolfi you would agree that if it is true, it's ridiculous, right?"

Hmm, the 'capitalists' seem to be changing their tune... now its just a joke... glad you came to your senses!

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pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 15, 2007, 17:00:

podborski says on Nov 15, 2007, 20:57:

usher,

maybe you need to read my comment again, but more s l o w l y

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usher127 says on Nov 16, 2007, 07:53:

so you still think that Chavez wants to ban miniskirts or now you claim it was a joke all along?

I got the impression you thought it was true... but slowly the tone changed and now you realise its ridiculous, like alot of Chavez propaganda.

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billyb says on Nov 16, 2007, 07:59:

Usher, we are all in a tizzy, because we are seriously concerned about what Chavez does about the mini.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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podborski says on Nov 16, 2007, 08:25:

since Chavez has not met with me personally to tell me that it is or is not his intention to ban mini
skirts, I can't say it's 100% true.

the point is, I want to know if you or dolfi will agree or not that IF it's true, it's ridiculous?

Is that so hard?

Since you don't seem to get it, the point is, once proven true (or not) then you won't be able to pull the usual trick of changing your story, "oh it's just protecting venezuelan culture", you know, that kind of nonsense.

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usher127 says on Nov 16, 2007, 08:43:

of course its ridiculous... and I don't believe it. Do you really need to meet with Chavez to form an opinion... seems like your confused. Do YOU think its true?

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slguy says on Nov 16, 2007, 09:47:

Pod, Pod......I thought you knew better. jajajajajajajjajaja

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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usher127 says on Nov 16, 2007, 09:58:

ok, so some people were joking and some people thought it was true or were undecided, which is the same thing.

Clearly, its not true. Clearly, if it was true, it would be ridiculous. But, this is a genuine problem for Chavez and people like him... the likes of Fox news talk shit... and lots of people take it in. Sigh.

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Cerealkiller says on Nov 16, 2007, 12:00:

Oh man I want one of those hot pink dyes...Can you imagine? Bf would die laughing but chances are I would end up not getting lucky...do you guys think its too psychadelic?

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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slguy says on Nov 16, 2007, 12:02:

"Clearly, its not true"

How exactly do you know this? While I doubt the story's truth- your hero is just as clearly a low class, narcissitic blowhard, who possesses all the class of a stray dog. His game is to provoke other heads of state, so he can play games with their reactions.

His reaction to be told to shut his pie hole? Venezuela was insulted. But he stands on the podium at the UN, and jokes about smelling sulfur after Bush left? What a lowclass, childish embarrassment for the people of Venezuela.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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eywed says on Nov 16, 2007, 13:37:

Help me out guys I'm confused here, Is this what Chavez wants to ban?
**DELETED**

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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Man Tequila says on Nov 16, 2007, 14:07:

Man, looks like "Mr. Tickle" is turning into a misnomer. ;)

Kidding!

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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billyb says on Nov 16, 2007, 14:56:

slguy, I resent that comparison, where do you get off insulting all stray dogs like that?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Man Tequila says on Nov 16, 2007, 15:08:

Yeah, especially those poker playing ones.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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usher127 says on Nov 16, 2007, 16:22:

Agreed. He has been acting like a baby since being told to shut up. But, the sulfur comment was pure class and spot on.

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la campiña (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 16, 2007, 17:06:

billyb says on Nov 16, 2007, 17:08:

Just hand them out to needy (and leggy) ladies;)

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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slguy says on Nov 16, 2007, 17:09:

Pure class? jajajajajajajaja

Where exactly did you receive your instruction in manners?

Here's a news flash for you- it is possible to disagree with a person, without resorting to childish gutter talk- that is assuming one knows the difference in class and the gutter. Apparently, your hero never learned the difference...nor did you, if you think that sort of thing is "pure class".

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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billyb says on Nov 16, 2007, 17:14:

Such a classy statement, that the rest of the world, which has no love lost for Bush, decided that he wasn't classy enough to entrust Venezuela with one of the two security council seats for SA after he made it. Perhaps Usher thinks Pol Pot was a classy fellow as well.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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usher127 says on Nov 16, 2007, 18:20:

First of all he's not my hero... any more than Bush is yours (or perhaps he is). But, its a relief to finally see a powerful politician stand up to Bush... who may as well be the devil.

Anyway, maybe manners are overated... love or hate Chavez's personaity... it has little to do with his policies which are surely the point. And let's face it, at least he's got the brains to write his own speeches. Maybe you prefer pantomime politics with a little puppet who says all the right things while grinning at the camera... before slaugthering a few more thousand innocent people in the name of 'freedom'.. 'democracy'... 'freedom'...

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billyb says on Nov 16, 2007, 18:30:

"Anyway, maybe manners are overated"

Actually no. Bad manners tend to cause people to dismiss somebody, even if they agree with their point.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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usher127 says on Nov 16, 2007, 18:59:

true... I guess he just gets too exited... bless him

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slguy says on Nov 16, 2007, 21:46:

If the copies of his speeches that I've read are any indications, he could use a good speechwriter or two. The man's barely intelligible, much less articulate. But I guess he does a good job of appealing to the lowest common denominator...

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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christobeldawg says on Nov 16, 2007, 22:03:

with all of that oil wealth, all mini skirt ban jokes aside, he does seem to present some danger, some instability to the overall region

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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podborski says on Nov 17, 2007, 03:34:

now you hit the nail on the head slguy! jaja

"But I guess he does a good job of appealing to the lowest common denominator..."

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usher127 says on Nov 17, 2007, 07:39:

what? are you refering to poor people? Yes, theyre not important... youre right

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podborski says on Nov 17, 2007, 07:45:

apparently you equate being poor with being 'the lowest common denominator', I don't, especially since I grew up poor.

I equate it to lacking intelligence and the ability or effort to think for your self, and that malady affects rich and poor alike, and seems more common among the rich IMHO.

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slguy says on Nov 17, 2007, 08:55:

As usual, Pod's exactly correct.

My comment had nada to do with economics.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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usher127 says on Nov 17, 2007, 12:50:

is it an american thing to keep quoting your buddy when arguing?

Anyway, lets be honest, poor people dont have the same access to education... which is why i interpreted your comments as i did. Regardless, no question, chavez appeals to the poor... not to the rich or even to the 'stupid' rich.

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podborski says on Nov 17, 2007, 15:26:

it's true the poor don't have access to education, which is why I don't really blame them for supporting Chavez or Castro.

And there might not be many rich in Venezuela that support Chavez, but there are certainly lots in th USA and I'll bet many, many more in europe. These are the highly educated people that listened to their marxist professors blathering on about evils of capitalism, and actually accepted it without every thinking it through for themselves.

Anyway, the point is, to me the lowest common denominator is the thug who wants to force people to do things his way, has nothing to do with wealth or lack of it, but I suppose more poor people resort to violence to get their way than do rich people?.

Seems to me those are the folks that support Chavez, along with the intellectual lefties of course (who are just thugs of a different kind, in my opinion)

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usher127 says on Nov 17, 2007, 15:58:

I had no idea there were that many rich people in the US that supported Chavez.

So, now you are suggesting Chavez uses violence to get his way? Chavez has won his elections fair and square. People just cant handle that fact.

There was a lot of uproar about Chavez running for a third term, that is, until Uribe suggested he might do the same. Now, it doesnt seem to be a problem. The uproarers should also observe that in England you can serve as many terms as you like. We had to put up with Tony Blair for 10 years.

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podborski says on Nov 17, 2007, 20:01:

I keep making the mistake of assuming that people who argue in favour of socialism understand what it means.

Are you aware that socialist economies are centrally planned (the defining characteristic of socialist eonomics in fact) and capitalist economies allow individual freedom in economic choices?

(and no, of course there are no 'perfectly' socialist nor capitalist economies, as if that makes any difference)

So if you think about that for more than 2 seconds, you should understand that central planning necessitates the use of force to make people act in the way the state wants them to.

I don't really know how much physical force/violence Chavez has used so far, but I'd say it's nothing compared to what he will use in future.

Ask some big oil companies if they gave up ownership of their companies willingly.

Oh, but big oil companies are evil right?

And I am really wasting my time, should have listened to my own advice huh slguy?

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christobeldawg says on Nov 17, 2007, 20:05:

so since it was a joke about banning mini skirts, and then therefore I understand the socialist Chavez has total control, I think he could require that all women with great legs should wear mini skirts.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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billyb says on Nov 17, 2007, 22:02:

I think I'm going to have to repeat my primer on economic models.

Socialism: you have two cows and the state takes one.

Communism: you have two cows and the state takes both of them and gives you some milk (supposedly)

Facism: you have two cows and the state takes both and shoots you.

Capitalism: you have two cows, you sell one and buy a bull.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 17, 2007, 22:11:

Socialism: you have 2 mini skirts and the state takes one

Communism: you have 2 minis and the state takes both of them and lets you look up their skirt

Fascism: you have 2 you know what's and the state takes both and shoots you

Capitalism: you have 2 micro mini's, you sell one and buy a camel toe

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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billyb says on Nov 17, 2007, 22:25:

Dawg, I see you are an economist at heart. you take to it like a fish to water, jaja.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 17, 2007, 22:31:

with no Mona to correct me, look out, I may become a moph of Rubito\Elmodefoque.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 18, 2007, 02:29:

I can keep an eye on you, Christo

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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podborski says on Nov 18, 2007, 05:03:

ah billyb, that's much more succint than my explanation!

christobel: A morph of rubito and elmo? Now that sounds frightening

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usher127 says on Nov 18, 2007, 09:49:

This argument is going no-where... because as with anything it all depends who you are and where you are. For example, I would rather be born into poverty in Cuba than in say, democratric Jamaica. Those big american hotels that dominate the nice coastal areas might offer me a job mopping the floor, but i'm still fucked when it comes to getting health care, giving education to my kids and guarenteeing some food on the table.

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podborski says on Nov 19, 2007, 01:11:

it's pretty hard to have a real debate on the internet, to make a good argument means typing for hours, and if you try to edit things you get misunderstood.

I don't know Jamaica, but imagine it's not a very nice place to be, especially if you are poor. But why limit the choice to Jamaica? If wealth is the answer why on earth don't people follow the example of the wealthiest nation on earth?

That's what I don't get.

(and if you really believe that there is good free health care in Cuba, I'd guess that you haven't been there. The best health care there is reserved for people paying in USD, or CP members only. You can barely find a tylenol otherwise.)

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usher127 says on Nov 19, 2007, 06:48:

I gave Jamaica as an example because it is of similar size and presumably, has similar natural resources, etc. to Cuba. Many countries follow the example of the US, but it doesnt necesarily work for them. One might argue that these countries need a few years of 'socialism' (not communism) to steady the ship... because theyre problems are so grave. In other words, guarentee health care, security, education, food, etc... and after that.. people can do what they want. The US system is survival of the fittest... which is strange given that so many people are religious in your country.

Basically, if your're comfortable with the notion that some people (or many in the case of most latin countries) will live a humiliating life, just so we can optimise our economic environment for big companies and big rich families, then that's fine. But, from an impartial perspective... if you were born again... you would probably not make it into the top 10% as you have this time.

Yes, I have been to Cuba... of course, I found people who were not happy about things... and the same can be said of most Colombians, Jamaicans, etc. I noticed some absurd rules in place that were ridiculous, butI could also walk anywhere at 4am without a problem... try saying that about most other cities in the world.

Remember, how was Cuba pre-Fidel? It was a very tough place for the average Cuban... yes, they were free... free to starve.... free to not get an education... free to mop the floor for all the gringo holiday makers... and I suppose they were free to leave their country... just as the mexicans are free right now to run across the border and look for some humiliating work.

If only the US would stop the trade embargo, we would be able to see the true potential of Cuba. You can say that it only does this because of the strong Cuban presence in Miami. So, here we have an obvious absurdity for democracy... the government engages in a policy with which it doesnt agree... with which the average american doesnt agree... with which most people in the world dont agree... which desimatse an entire country... just to win some votes in a key state.. Democracy eh!

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billyb says on Nov 19, 2007, 06:52:

" but I could also walk anywhere at 4am without a problem... try saying that about most other cities in the world."

You can say that about any city on earth.....that's in a police state that is.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 19, 2007, 17:12:

This year non-oil trade between the U.S. and Venezuela will almost double last year.....The Economist.....so El Jefe Socialista apparently has no problem doing business with El Diablo.....

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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usher127 says on Nov 19, 2007, 17:35:

clarooo.... nor would Fidel mind doing business with el diablo.... It is in fact el diablo, who decides not to do business with Cuba, because he is offended by its politics. And the same diablo who puts imense pressure on other countries not to do business with Cuba... effectivrly strangling it to death.

However, clearly el diablo is a little fickle and makes an excpetion with Chavez... and a MASSIVE exception with China. Clearly, el diablo doesnt reallly care about politics as he so claims, he just cares about countires that serve his needs. Let us not forget that Iran used to have a democratic political system, which the US replaced with a dictator to serve its needs... now 50 years on... its not being served well, so suddenly 'democracy' is back in fashion.

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 19, 2007, 18:08:

Usher - Your history is a little rusty, I think. To pick one example, research the family tree of the Anglo-Persian -->> Anglo-Iranian -->> British Petroleum Company. Yep, the Brits mucked things up way back in 1909 and were neck deep in things all the way up to and INCLUDING the Iranian coup in 1953 (it was their idea, after all). And another: There's a reason the UK military was headquartered in Basra, Iraq beginning in 2003. It was a homecoming of sorts for them.

I wanted access to health care, housing and education, but, no, I get potholes, trash and silicone tits instead. -Desi.

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usher127 says on Nov 19, 2007, 18:22:

Well, I don't disagree... many of the things I've said apply to the UK too. But, I was/still am pretty sure it was the US that replaced a democratically elected leader with a dictator.

Whoever it was... it is one of zillions of examples that seriously undermine the motivations of the US and UK in the world at the moment... and their claim to really care about 'democracy'.

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 19, 2007, 18:33:

Here's one about expropriation and pertinent to Venezuela and Cuba. Guess who controlled 60% of Mexico's oil industry in 1938? Royal Dutch/Shell.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/wwii/92455.htm

Point being, the US government is happy to allow business transactions with nations that have expropriated assets, as long as some compensation was paid. Look at what we do today in the Middle East, in Mexico, in Venezuela (oil, telecom, electricity nationalizations) and elsewhere. I **think** the key difference with Cuba is that Cuba never paid. So the embargo lives on...

I wanted access to health care, housing and education, but, no, I get potholes, trash and silicone tits instead. -Desi.

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 19, 2007, 18:36:

Democracy means different things to different people........but the one thing that El Diablo clearly understands is GREED

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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usher127 says on Nov 19, 2007, 19:35:

Yep, I stand corrected, it was both the UK and US that overthrew a democratically elected leader and established an oil friendly dictator...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax

Yeah, Cuba never paid... *i think*... clearly a stupid strategic mistake... but still doesnt justify US rhetoric and policy

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cali373 says on Nov 19, 2007, 20:09:

Even if it was the UK's idea for the U.S./U.K. backed coup of a democratic government. I am pretty certain U.S. big Oil and Big Auto did not mind.

Smile if you are a thinker!

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billyb says on Nov 19, 2007, 21:24:

I can see big oil having a dog in the hunt, but why would the auto indsutry care?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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aztec says on Nov 20, 2007, 06:40:

Poor Chavez!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9X8DYOA5DE

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billyb says on Nov 20, 2007, 06:58:

LOL

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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billyb says on Nov 20, 2007, 07:05:

good post, Morph.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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podborski says on Nov 20, 2007, 09:13:

the US embargo as a cause for cubas disastrous economy is such a lame one. As morph points out, other countries freely trade with Cuba, Spain and Canada being prime examples. And tourists from everywhere but the US flock to Cuba to enjoy the beaches the locals are not allowed to visit.

Sherritt corp has businesses in Cuba, so does the big Melia hotel chain, etc.

More countries would trade with Cuba if only Cuba had anything to sell, or enough dollars to pay for imports.

I'm sure the Fidel supporters would actually hate to see the ' embargo' end, as they's be left without any more excuses.

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billyb says on Nov 20, 2007, 09:16:

If the embargo ended they woud be totally exposed.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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billyb says on Nov 20, 2007, 09:16:

*

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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usher127 says on Nov 20, 2007, 10:01:

"They can do business with just about every country in the world"

Errr... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba

Some random quotes...

"The 1963 U.S. embargo was reinforced in October 1992 by the Cuban Democracy Act (the "Torricelli Law") and in 1996 by the Cuban Liberty and Democracy Solidarity Act (known as the Helms-Burton Act) which penalises foreign companies that do business in Cuba by preventing them from doing business in the US. The justification provided for these restrictions was that these companies were trafficking in stolen U.S. properties, and should, thus, be excluded from the United States"

"The European Union resents the Helms Burton Act because it felt that the US was dictating how other nations ought to conduct their trade and challenged it on that basis. The EU eventually dropped its challenge in favor of negotiating a solution"

"Sanctions may also be applied to non-U.S. companies trading with Cuba. This restriction also applies to maritime shipping, as ships docking at Cuban ports are not allowed to dock at U.S. ports for six months."

"On October 10, 2006 the United States announced the creation of a task force made up of officials from several US agencies that will pursue more aggressively violators of the US trade embargo against Cuba, with penalties as severe as 10 years of prison and thousands of dollars in fines for violators of the embargo.[8]"

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podborski says on Nov 20, 2007, 10:19:

so your argument, usher, is that every company in the world has to do business in the US?

if that were true, I'd be wondering what makes the US so great, so that you absolutely have to do business there, no?

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usher127 says on Nov 20, 2007, 10:24:

jesus... think about it podborski... if you could do business with ONLY Cuba or ONLY the US... which would you choose?... one country is slightly bigger than the other

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billyb says on Nov 20, 2007, 10:28:

The moral of the story is, don't steal other people's property. And if you do, don't whine if they retaliate.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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usher127 says on Nov 20, 2007, 10:32:

well talk like that and act like that.. and the whole world will hate you... its not like they stole California.. or heaven forbid... Hawaii!

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billyb says on Nov 20, 2007, 11:10:

"well talk like that and act like that.. and the whole world will hate you"


And I would care because.......

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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usher127 says on Nov 20, 2007, 11:12:

And you should care because...

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kalder says on Nov 20, 2007, 13:41:

How much is a beer in Cuba?

"A piece of cheese may entrap a mouse, but a bicycle could ensnare the Imperial Chancellor."~~An Bai Kuang

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 20, 2007, 22:17:

I know Pod doesn't have the highest regard for reality and common sense, but I think even he would appreciate the fact that the presumed legislation is just a fake (with these how many fakes have you posted Pod, 3, 4?)

http://www.dealante.com/nodo.php?nodoid=15979

This is the kind of poorly manufactured BS that the opposition in Venezuela produces. To be honest, if I had to choose between them and Chavez, I'd take Chavez in a second. As much as I dislike Chavez, at least he is not fucking retard.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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kalder says on Nov 21, 2007, 00:36:

"I know Pod doesn't have the highest regard for reality and common sense."

Oh come...he has it by the bucket load.

And although I'm no fan of unrestricted capitalism, if I had to choose between Podworld and the 'opposition' I'd take Pod in a second.

Hoping desperately that doesn't sound gay.

"A piece of cheese may entrap a mouse, but a bicycle could ensnare the Imperial Chancellor."~~An Bai Kuang

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podborski says on Nov 21, 2007, 05:02:

guess it's taking me longer to realize that in latin america the newspapers are full of lies.

In north america you get called on (most) of them, and reporters and editors are fired.

I guess corruption really is even more rampant here than I thought.

The real point is, Chavez's political philosophy is based on the idea that you do not own your own life, you exist for the sake of the state or the 'common good' whatever that is.

Whether that means he bans mini skirts, or maybe something more serious like fire/threaten/kill/jail anyone who speaks out is immaterial.

Unfortunately, the mini skirt story is the untrue one and the latter is much closer to reality.

I've yet to hear an argument from sr t that doesn't end with " and anyway, he's better than (insert one of: long dead fascist dictator, GW Bush, paramilitaries, evil opposition, yada yada yada"

Lesser of two evils is still evil in my book.

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 21, 2007, 16:30:

"Oh come...he has it by the bucket load"
For evidence against, just read above.

"guess it's taking me longer to realize that in latin america the newspapers are full of lies"
(1) Yahoo is not a newspaper and (2) They are not more full of lies than anybody else. It does require from the reader to exert a bit of skepticism. I don't think that's asking a lot. Does it hurt so much to say that you were wrong? Geez, it won't kill you, you know?

"In north america you get called on (most) of them, and reporters and editors are fired."
Have you checked the reporters and editors of "Yahoo noticias"? I'll give you a hint: They share something in common with unicorns. Admittedly, firing the inexistent is somewhat difficult. On the flip side, I'm sure you've heard of Fox News, right? Despite their daily dose of counterfactual statements, nobody, AFAIK, has been fired.

"The real point is, Chavez's political philosophy is based on the idea that you do not own your own life, you exist for the sake of the state or the 'common good' whatever that is."
(1) No, that's not the point. The real point is that you can't distinguish a chain mail from a verifiable report. Rememer this?: http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/viva-chavez/. (2) Given your sources, your idea of Chavez's political philosophy, the "real point," has the credibility of a 3-peso coin.

"or maybe something more serious like fire/threaten/kill/jail anyone who speaks out is immaterial."
May you provide a specific case? Something that actually happened would be preferred.

"Unfortunately, the mini skirt story is the untrue one and the latter is much closer to reality."
And how exactly do we know that?

"I've yet to hear an argument from sr t that doesn't end with " and anyway, he's better than (insert one of: long dead fascist dictator, GW Bush, paramilitaries, evil opposition, yada yada yada""
I've never made a single argument along those lines, nevermind a comparison with "long dead fascist dictator, GW Bush, paramilitaries." I did make some comparison against "evil opposition" (not so much evil as stupid and ineffective) and maybe "yada yada yada." The problem, I think, is that you fail to distinguish an argument from a simple statement of personal preference. All I've said is that I don't generally like Chavez, for very specific reasons, but I like some of what he does, and ultimately that's the Venezuelan's problem. How do you construe that as an argument? An argument for WHAT?

"Lesser of two evils is still evil in my book."
Nice bumpersticker. Now make it rhyme.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2007, 17:27:

The lesser of two crooks is still a crook in my book? How's that?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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podborski says on Nov 21, 2007, 17:35:

wow that's a lot of crap in one comment!

I read the original article in an argentine newspaper, probably la nacion, then saw it on yahoo, as did someone else.

Are you really claiming Chavez is not a marxist/communist/socialist whatever label you want to give someone who believes in centrally planned economies and forced redistribution of wealth?

I'm pretty sure even Chavez is clear on that one...

Really, you should get your head out of dusty old libraries and look around.

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 21, 2007, 17:56:

"The lesser of two crooks is still a crook in my book? How's that?"
Better. Much better.

"read the original article in an argentine newspaper, probably la nacion,"
Really? Please show. A link would suffice.

"Are you really claiming Chavez is not a marxist/communist/socialist whatever label you want to give someone who believes in centrally planned economies and forced redistribution of wealth?"
My only claim is that your statement is full of shit, no more, no less. Maybe Chavez eats children for breakfast, but I'd believe that when I see compelling evidence. Anything else is BS.

"you should get your head out of dusty old libraries and look around."
?? err... okay... but if by "looking around" you mean copy-pasting random crap from the internet, I'll stick to my sources, thank you. It's quite ironic that a gullible guy like you would be lecturing me on how to collect information.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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la campiña (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 21, 2007, 18:05:

podborski says on Nov 21, 2007, 18:19:

man you crack me up sometimes sr t, you come up with more BS and contradictions in one comment than I could in a lifetime, as always, it's a problem knowing where to start.

So first, this is too funny, this post you cite: (1) No, that's not the point. The real point is that you can't distinguish a chain mail from a verifiable report. Rememer this?: http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/viva-chavez/. (2) Given your sources, your idea of Chavez's political philosophy, the "real point," has the credibility of a 3-peso coin

was not posted by me, uh, soooo....dunno what you're going on about there, but a quick glance at it would have shown who the poster was, but your high level research capabilities seem to have failed you there.

As always, useless debating with you, your 'truth' is anything posted on obscure (almost certainly partisan) websites no one has ever heard of. www.dealante.com?? are you kidding me? You know, yahoo is fairly well known by some people...and then you have this to say: "you mean copy-pasting random crap from the internet," jajajajajaja! man, I give you credit for trying that one on, almost as funny as elmo, but at least elmo doesn't take himself so seriously.

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podborski says on Nov 21, 2007, 18:29:

so here's where the story I saw came from, doesn't look too dodgy:

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infobae

let's see what dealante is all about...

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manny0775 says on Nov 21, 2007, 18:33:

Bull shit !Chavez is a womanizer who loves mini-skirts and p.u.s.s.y

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podborski says on Nov 21, 2007, 18:33:

oh this is starting to get fun, here's dealante.com, "anarquia en linea" jajaja! Alexa rankings:

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/main/dealante.com

now I don't know how to read the alexa stats, but looks to me like your trusted source has a whopping 6,000 page views/day on average, and each person views 6 pages, so that means one thousand users. (that's not right, it has a ranking of 6,000 something, vs Infobae at 1,100 and PBH at, sorry, 90,000 something)

jeez, I was getting bored with you again sr t, but this is quite entertaining

Let's see how that stacks up to PBH

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Colombiche says on Nov 21, 2007, 18:37:

Pod and Sr T are going at it again? I'm going to go get the popcorn!!!!!

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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podborski says on Nov 21, 2007, 18:50:

too late colombiche, I think we're almost done.

But I did screw up the alexa rankings stuff, I don't know how to read those numbers. The explanation is tougher to read than one of sr t's rebuttals.

It does look like the panamanian anarchist site gets more visitors than PBH, and that's hard to believe.

Do you think that's due to too many elmo shaving his butt posts or not enough?

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podborski says on Nov 21, 2007, 18:53:

hey that dealante site is not bad, I can see why sr t does his 'research' there, check this out:

http://dealante.com/nodo.php?nodoid=16055

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christobeldawg says on Nov 21, 2007, 19:21:

what it actually was was that Chavez was attempting only to disallow looking up mini skirts.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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Man Tequila says on Nov 21, 2007, 19:25:

Well, that was inappropriate.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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christobeldawg says on Nov 21, 2007, 19:27:

la camp was worse than me teacher.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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la campiña (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 21, 2007, 19:35:

la campiña (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 21, 2007, 19:41:

christobeldawg says on Nov 21, 2007, 19:43:

I have no problem with it. I think you are a very refreshing voice here.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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usher127 says on Nov 21, 2007, 19:56:

Jesus... this post is going again.. I thought I killed it... the argument was won... the capitalists conceded the debate.. finally admitting that all things considered, they were perhaps sinisterly, naively predictable in 'believing' the mini-skirt story, totally mis-informed about the embargo on Cuba, finally down-grading their position as, 'actually we don’t give a shit, we can so we will fuck with other countries' and finally, being stone cold silent when needing to explain why everything their shiny, happy political agenda stands for is undermined by 100 years of very different behaviour.. often described as 'mistakes', which somehow only seem to occur in other peoples countries and not their own... ah if only every country adopted this political culture

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christobeldawg says on Nov 21, 2007, 19:59:

I am not sure that la camp and I actually revived this post, not with our comments.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2007, 20:18:

I like the way Camps seems to get to the "bottom" of the matter. Right Usher, just like capitalism conceded to communism. How many truly communist (allowing for the fact that there never was a truly communist country) are left and how well are they doing? Usher? N. Korea? Cuba?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 21, 2007, 20:20:

We only lifted the skirt.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2007, 20:20:

I mean, I wish China was still a "socialist" state controlled economy, because then they would still be a waste case.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 21, 2007, 20:22:

Sweden and Denmark have done well as predominantly socialist systems.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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christobeldawg says on Nov 21, 2007, 20:27:

no need for a response because I know, they are smaller populations, and have a very educated population, and very little underclass, and strong capitalist tendencies, but just wanted to throw in there that socialist governments can do well.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2007, 20:33:

I hear you CD, but I think the key word (phrase) would have to be state controlled economy, and with no private ownership, or by extension private initiative. The rest is semantics. That's why I put socialist in " marks

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 21, 2007, 20:39:

Denmark and Sweden do a good job of taking care of all of their people, and I think that is missing in the US, for more complicated reasons than in those countries, for sure, but yes, they are not dictatorships. Remember when people used to say that they were financially conservative but socially liberal? Well, all of that seems lost now in the US amidst the divisiveness of the 2 major parties.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2007, 20:50:

As always, I think the answer is found somewhere in the middle.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2007, 20:51:

"financially conservative but socially liberal"

That pretty much describes me, with a few nuances along the way.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 21, 2007, 20:55:

agreed. now let's get back to talking about mini skirts, and the problems they present to us all, worldwide. what must we do?

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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Man Tequila says on Nov 21, 2007, 20:58:

I propose leading an investigation team to get to the bottom of this important matter.

I might need some help.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2007, 21:01:

It is an important matter, although some tend to minimize it.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 21, 2007, 21:38:

finally a study I can sink my teeth into, though it is a very delicate matter.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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christobeldawg says on Nov 21, 2007, 21:39:

did I say that? I need to moderate myself. I don't need no stinkin Tinto or Colombiche.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2007, 21:52:

Badges? I don't need to show you no stinken badges!!

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 21, 2007, 21:56:

"some tend to minimize it"

that's another good one mi amigo. la camp, have you released GSouth yet, or where do I need to send Billy's money?

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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Man Tequila says on Nov 21, 2007, 21:58:

Don't skirt the issue, Billyb.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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la campiña (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 21, 2007, 22:04:

billyb says on Nov 21, 2007, 22:12:

Come on Camps, come clean, what did you do with El Patico???

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 21, 2007, 22:22:

just give us the SHORT take on this la Camp, as in, keep your response to a mini mum.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2007, 22:35:

As ManT said, don't skirt the issue.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 21, 2007, 22:51:

is he alive, dead, or up a skirt? la camp?

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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houstongal (Trustee board) says on Nov 21, 2007, 22:53:

he'll be back stateside in 13 hours .... i'm sure he'll have lots of stories to tell....or maybe not.

"It is now official: there's no place on earth where you will not find a Peruvian band." David Sedaris

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2007, 22:56:

".... i'm sure he'll have lots of stories to tell...."

If he has removed the gag Camps mentioned.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 21, 2007, 23:01:

I notice we become more famous around here once we leave for Colombia for a stint, and that's the way it should be. all sorts of rumours start flyin around.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2007, 23:08:

control the information! That's why people should start their own rumors.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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houstongal (Trustee board) says on Nov 21, 2007, 23:11:

well, i promise to get GS online before he starts the drive back home.

"It is now official: there's no place on earth where you will not find a Peruvian band." David Sedaris

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2007, 23:12:

Is he flying into Houston?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 21, 2007, 23:13:

won't his arms get awfully tired by the time he gets to Texas?

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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christobeldawg says on Nov 21, 2007, 23:17:

delete, sorry, old joke

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2007, 23:20:

Henny Youngman??

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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houstongal (Trustee board) says on Nov 21, 2007, 23:22:

yup, he flew out of houston. his car has been sitting in my driveway since saturday. being the nice person that i am, i'll pick him up at the airport. and he's even getting thanksgiving dinner at my home.

"It is now official: there's no place on earth where you will not find a Peruvian band." David Sedaris

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2007, 23:39:

That's pretty nice of you. Do the rest of us get the same consideration when we are in Houston?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 22, 2007, 09:00:

"was not posted by me, uh, soooo....dunno what you're going on about there"

uh, read the second comment: "jajaja! great example which shows just how close communists are to the religious extremists. next step: burkas for the beach!" What a display of thoughtful skepticism!

"As always, useless debating with you, your 'truth' is anything posted on obscure (almost certainly partisan) websites no one has ever heard of."

You are deeply, deeply confused, Pod. I don’t make any claims about dealante.com, but I thought it was obvious that it was intended to contrast the ridiculous fake proposal with the real one, which is linked in the page. You can also find the text of the approved reform here
http://es.wikisource.org/wiki/Reforma_de_la_constitución_de_la_Repúb...

or in the government’s webpage. Pod, if I present a link, it is usually to illustrate a point, not necessarily to "do my research." I’m sorry I had you all worked up on that, but I thought that you had the intelligence to tell a blatantly fake document from one that at least appears legitimate.

Now, where is that link to La Nación? Ah, no, now it turns out that you DID get it from a shitty news agency, infobae. Please! Get your crap straight. Yahoo is fairly well known but NOT as a news agency: They simply copy other people’s reports. Infobae holds the remarkable tradition of 5 years in the news industry (watch out Reuters!) and is now reduced to an internet portal. Indeed, a competition to the Bible on the category of revealed truth.

Here Pod, you can simply say "I’ll be more careful about where I get my information next time." It may hurt your ego a bit, but it won’t kill you. I’ve done it a few times myself. I recall quoting from The Guardian something that Wolfowitz supposedly said, which turned out to be completely inaccurate. I didn’t say "The Guardian reports that…", I flat out said "Wolfowitz said this…", so I had to retract. It’s pretty poor to blame your sources when you’re the one accepting what they say.

Finally, will you come up now with some verifiable report of someone getting killed or jailed by Chavez’s government for speaking out? I’d rather not ask a 14th time.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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kalder says on Nov 22, 2007, 09:18:

Well, Hugo's getting there:

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/10/16/venezu17104.htm

"A piece of cheese may entrap a mouse, but a bicycle could ensnare the Imperial Chancellor."~~An Bai Kuang

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 22, 2007, 09:57:

Indeed worrisome, but hardly unique--the US and Colombia also have exceptional legislation for terrorism or state of emergency. I'm not justifying it in any way, in fact I think the best thing every country could do is get rid of exceptional rules. This is a legitimate reason to put Chavez on task, but quite distinct from the government-run assassinations that Pod claims. Worse yet, frivolous shit like the stuff posted by Pod distracts from the serious stuff that is going on in Venezuela today.

Pod: I still haven't heard from Granda's beach house in Venezuela. Would you care to provide a report?

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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usher127 says on Nov 22, 2007, 10:07:

I agree.. its not good... but seems to be coming standard behaviour regardless of a country's political tag... I don't need to say much more than 'guantanamo bay'... and the UK is trying to pass some dubious laws of its own..

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Lucas Freley says on Nov 22, 2007, 13:20:

En lo que concierne al Diario La Nacion, es el diario mas serio e importante que existe en Argentina. Y todas, absolutamente, todas las noticias del exterior son levantadas de agencias como Telam, Ansa, DPA, EFE, AP. Asi que si esta noticia salió publicada en La Nacion, lo unico que hizo el diario fue receptar la noticia que alguna de estas agencias publicó.

Pero si hablamos de Venezuela, entonces lo mejor es ir a la fuente. No es tan erroneo de las minifaldas. Ya que como se puede ver en los links que posteo mas abajo, en varias ciudades hay una Campaña gubernamental con carteles (vallas) publicitarios que muestran a modelos en bikini, con una leyenda: "INCITAR AL SEXO PROVOCA VIOLACIONES", y por eso se pretende que las mujeres anden al estilo irani, con burkas. Recomiendo leer ambos links, ademas de que van a poder las fotos de las mujeres venezolanas repudiando la prohibicion tanto del uso de bikinis como de minifaldas.

http://www.noticias24.com/actualidad/?p=7243

http://www.noticias24.com/actualidad/?p=7037

Hoy que estás esplendida y que todo lo iluminas, demos un paseo, vuelta por el Universo (Gustavo Cerati)

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podborski says on Nov 22, 2007, 14:38:

sr t, next time I post a life-or-death-important bit of fluff about Chavez and mini skirts, or not liking halloween, or wanting to drop a few zeros off the currency, I'll be sure to check all government websites, interview several well known venezuela analysts, check my sources twice, maybe take a 2 year journalism course first...

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podborski says on Nov 22, 2007, 17:17:

Hey Lucas it looks like the bikinazos VS the bikini-nazis, jaja

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Lucas Freley says on Nov 22, 2007, 19:14:

Si tenes razon Pod, no lo habia pensado...es muy buena la metafora. Ojala que ganen los bikinazos :)
Le doy credito a lo que decis, ya que La Nacion levanta noticias de agencias internacionales. Y ademas lo de la prohibicion de minifaldas y bikinis no es un invento de Internet...esta documentado en los links que subi. Ademas de la noticia en si, se ven las fotos de las publicidades, como recortes de diarios, y las mujeres protestando...contra los "bikinazis"...No hay duda...es una Campaña Oficial...pobres chicas, las culpan de fomentar las violaciones (ultrajes al pudor, penetraciones, acoso sexual) por usar minis y bikinis...Absurdo total. Pretenden que vistan con las burkas negras como las mujeres iranies.

Algo mas, el otro dia vi por la tele como Chavez comentaba los goles de Venezuela...Resulta que el tipo conduce un programa de television que pasa en cadena nacional en todas las emisoras, y que la gente si o si tiene que ver, ya que no te da opcion a ver otro programa durante ese horario. Y Chavez hacia los relatos y comentarios del partido...Decia...goooooooool de Venezuela...gooooooooooool de Venezuela...Todo muy fundamentado y critico, viste ? Claro el programa lo auspicia: La compañia de ropa "Burkas".

Hoy que estás esplendida y que todo lo iluminas, demos un paseo, vuelta por el Universo (Gustavo Cerati)

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billyb says on Nov 22, 2007, 19:30:

Creo que el presidente de Iran le esta metiendo bobadas en el oido a Chevez, pues ya que son casi hermanos. Imaginese todas esas Venezolanitas lindas cubiertas con burkas.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 22, 2007, 20:18:

Lucas: Gracias por los links, la noticia está interesante. Pero ojo que eso fue sólo una valla, no una reforma constitucional para prohibir la minifalda, que ni siquiera puso Chavez sino el gobernador de Carabobo. De hecho, quienes protestan son mujeres del MVR, partido de Chavez. A pesar de la idiotez de algunos políticos regionales, ni a Chavez ni a la Asamblea se les ha ocurrido hacer imbecilidad de prohibir la minifalda por vía constitucional. Eso no salió en La Nación ni lo recogió ningún periódico respetable: fue una cadena de email de esos que dicen cualquier babosada para atacar a alguien. Calumnia, calumnia, que algo queda, dicen por ahí.

Pod: Your hyperbole and inability to admit error are, literally, fabulous.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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billyb says on Nov 22, 2007, 20:26:

I don't really think that anyone seriously believes that there is a move afoot to ban the mini in Venezuela at least not a serious one. I think most posters, like myself, just took this opportunity to poke a little fun at Chavez and post a few nice pictures.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 22, 2007, 20:55:

just that when the thought of someone banning something like that, as short as those possibilities might be, just makes me want 'em that much more. Before this thread, I am not sure I have ever felt so much thanksgivng for the miniskirt.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 22, 2007, 20:55:

I think a few here, including Pod, took it quite seriously.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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podborski says on Nov 23, 2007, 05:16:

here's the original post since you seemed to have missed it sr t:

"jajaja! what's next? any guesses? Starting to sound a lot like the Taliban huh?

He sure has a hatred for all things "extranjero", hey, maybe Chavez is colombia mike too?"

boy, that sure sounds like I'm serious, you really do seem to have a comprehension problem, I'd put special disclaimers in my posts for you, like "I don't really think banning mini skirts is a matter of serious global concern, in this instance the USA should hold off invading Venezuela", but that would sound condescending don't you think?

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podborski says on Nov 23, 2007, 05:20:

sr t says:

"but I thought that you had the intelligence to tell a blatantly fake document from one that at least appears legitimate."

ummm, please tell me how it is possible to tell a real from a fake document posted on the internet.

Sounds like a neat trick.

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podborski says on Nov 23, 2007, 05:33:

As billy b says, some of us just enjoy poking fun at Hugo, but I'm sure it would not be nearly so much fun if it didn't get some of the lefties so riled up : )

So, no, I will not "be more careful where I get my information", I'll continue to post whatever tidbits I come across that make fun of Hugo, and look forward to watching you take it too seriously.

And when Hugo does something REALLY bad, as he surely will, then maybe I'll take some time to post something serious.

But even then, I surely don't expect you or anyone else to believe it, or change your mind about anything, just as I would be hard pressed to say, for example, capitalism is a failure, just because GW Bush is such an incompetent idiot.

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Lucas Freley says on Nov 23, 2007, 06:29:

Sr. Tertius todo bien. Lo importante era aclarar el tema, mas alla de algunos intercambios de opinion, o formas de pensar. Es cierto que en Internet circulan muchas noticias falsas (fake). Y tambien es cierto lo de miente que algo quedara.
Sobre los links que subí, lo hice porque me pareció interesante que sepamos que a algun loco del Gobierno se le ocurrió la idea de las burkas...Yo lo tomo como señal de alerta. Porque hoy son vallas...pero mañana puede ser una ley. Como tendencia es peligroso. Y espero que como bien decis, solo halla sido la idiotez de un politico. Ya tuvimos suficientes locos en la historia como Neron o Hittler para tener uno nuevo en Carabobo.
Billy, si es cierto, Hugo esta muy cerca del presidente irani. Y ellos son una sociedad completamente distinta a la nuestra, con otras costumbres. Y no me imagino esas venezolanitas lindas con burkas...jaja...no me lo imagino...me gustan mas asi :))

Hoy que estás esplendida y que todo lo iluminas, demos un paseo, vuelta por el Universo (Gustavo Cerati)

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podborski says on Nov 23, 2007, 06:39:

that's the real point Lucas, that Chavez's philosophy, if followed to its logical conclusions, CAN lead to absurd regulations and restrictions on individual choices, whether it be what to wear, what job you can have, what you can read, what you can watch on tv, etc, etc.

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to look at the place and person Chavez idolizes (Cuba and Fidel) to see where he will take Venezuela.

Of course, there will still be the same few apologists here saying 'oh but he hasn't said he will do that" or "but it hasn't happened yet so it can't be". I really don't know if they are in denial, or just incapable of forecasting the logical conclusion to following certain principles that Chavez advocates.

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 23, 2007, 07:34:

Ah, the "I was just joking" excuse. Nice. I didn't know you had to justify the sources of your jokes. I'll take your observations about "Chavez's philosophy" as further sign of your sharp sense of humor. I guess my questions will remain unanswered.

Lucas: Sí, todo bien. Me gustaron mucho tus links, sobretodo porque muestra que los venezolanos están dispuestos a ponerle control a sus gobernantes. A mí todavía no me alarma la locura de algunos gobernantes en Venezuela: En Colombia nos aparece de vez en cuando un loco que quiere prohibir el arete en hombres o caminar saltando en una pata, por alguna razón de moralidad extraña. Más allá de reflejar el estilo tropical de nuestros gobernantes, yo no veo aún razón para preocuparme. Por supuesto, hay que estarles echando ojo, porque uno nunca sabe, pero creo que los venezolanos, en su caso, ya lo están haciendo. A mí lo que me molesta con algunos comentarios, sobretodo de los angloparlantes, es que asumen que los venezolanos son una partida de idiotas que no se saben gobernar. Mirá, la gente que elegió a Bush!

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 23, 2007, 07:36:

.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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usher127 says on Nov 23, 2007, 08:36:

podborski... you are completely unable to hold down a consistent position in this debate... you keep suggesting that 'you were only joking' about the miniskirt story... though that was clearly not the case at the beginning... and then you justify your ridiculous position by saying 'it could be true in the future'... which is irrelevant unless the only purpose of this discussion is to speculate about the future. Given your lack of judgement about the story's validity I would suggest that speculation is probably not your speciality.

Furthermore, you consistently make reference to things that are not true and when asked to elaborate or give examples, run back to your 'but isn’t it funny to annoy the lefty's' position.

I’m annoyed by people who take the time to argue for things when they don't even know where they get their own opinions from. Let's face it, you have no idea what you are talking about... your arguments sound like endless cliché outtakes from fox news that have no beginning, middle or end in their thought process. Even if everything you have said is correct, it would be by pure accident.

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 23, 2007, 09:48:

Anyone who in this day and age holds on to the caricatural distinction between left and right, socialism and capitalism, has either lost most connection to the world or has an edgy sense of humor most of us, mere mortals, fail to appreciate. Maybe the FARC guys are just very physical comedians.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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podborski says on Nov 23, 2007, 11:35:

anyone who in this day and age doesn't see the very clear distinction between socialism and capitalism, which stems from the collectivist principle that you do not own your own life, VS the individualist principle which is that you DO own your own life, has lost connection to logical thought.

The closer a nation moves to socialism, the fewer rights an individual has. The closer a nation moves towards capitalism, the more rights an individual has.

Call that simple, because it is, a simple truth, one that doesn't sit well with marxists, socialists and fascists, which is why ivory towered blowhards try to belittle simplicity, and why they will never argue first principles.

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 23, 2007, 13:29:

Pod: You have to tell us when you are joking and when you're not. Dense people like me can't tell the difference in your posts.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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manINred says on Nov 23, 2007, 14:09:

I think you are confusing communists with socialists. Nowhere within the socialist psyche is there a claim that "you do not own your own life". Actually, nowhere within Marx's communist doctrine is there such a claim either.

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podborski says on Nov 24, 2007, 03:51:

Sr T, I'll copy the reply that I made to you on this again, man your technique is to exhaust people I guess, jaja:

"jajaja! what's next? any guesses? Starting to sound a lot like the Taliban huh?

He sure has a hatred for all things "extranjero", hey, maybe Chavez is colombia mike too?"

boy, that sure sounds like I'm serious, you really do seem to have a comprehension problem, I'd put special disclaimers in my posts for you, like "I don't really think banning mini skirts is a matter of serious global concern, in this instance the USA should hold off invading Venezuela", but that would sound condescending don't you think?

If you really need me to be condescending to you, ok.

BTW, I used to just post Chavez stuff that I came across accidentally while reading yahoo or whatever, but now I think I'll go search for some ridiculous Chavez 'news', just to keep you 'lefties' on your toes, checking gov't websites and talking to your 'sources' jaja.

P.S. sr t , "jaja" is PBH short form to indicate "haha" which refers to someone laughing, which is what one might do if they were not being overly serious.

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podborski says on Nov 24, 2007, 04:01:

manINred, communism, socialism, fascism all require the individual to be subordinate to the state, which in essence means one does not own one's own life, although of course Marx and Engels would never write that explicitly (I don't think, but maybe they have).

If you don't see that, I'd be interested to hear what you think the defining characteristic of communism/socialism/fascism is.

In practical terms, and this is just one example, communists forbid the private ownership of property (and socialists lean towards nationalizing private property as well, as Hugo has clearly demonstrated, wouldn't you say?)

If I am not allowed to own property, fundamentally I am not allowed to support my life. The state may (or may not) decide to support me, but it is at the whim of the state.

I'd prefer to be in charge of my own life.

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podborski says on Nov 24, 2007, 04:20:

just to be a bit more clear manINred, communism/socialism/fascism/naziism are not exactly the same of course, but their FUNDAMENTAL principles are the same, subordination of individual rights to collective rights, with the collective being either 'the state', 'the motherland', the 'fatherland' etc.

I'd also argue that religion is a collectivist institution, where the indivual is subordinate to 'God'.

Yes, that means I believe religion and communism have the same fundamental basis, with 'the state' being replaced by 'god'.

So of course communists need to be atheists, you cannot have centralized authority if there are 2 beings or institutions at the top of the pyramid, so to speak.

In another post someone (usher I think?) made a very astute observation that it seemed odd that in the very religious USA ("I am my brother's keeper" after all), people did not feel obligated to share their wealth with the poor.

I agree completely (only about the contradiction, I do think americans are very generous however).

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 24, 2007, 06:30:

This is hilarious. Please go on.

Kalder: Do you still stand by Pod's "bucket load" of reality and common sense? You don't even have to poke him too hard to get the kind of nonsense posted above. I hope he doesn't change though.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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kalder says on Nov 24, 2007, 09:42:

The belief that the individual has no meaning, that only abstract categories (race, class etc.) are politically relevant, has lead to untold misery in the modern age. So pod's underlining Communism's and Nazism's moral equivalence is indeed commonsensical and reasonable.

I'm unclear as to whether he's conflating social democracy (democratic socialism?) with the above movements. Personally, I certainly wouldn't. The mild, non-Marxist (often passionately anti-Marxist) experiments in a fairer, more equitable society that pertained in much Western Europe after the war are alright by me.

"A piece of cheese may entrap a mouse, but a bicycle could ensnare the Imperial Chancellor."~~An Bai Kuang

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gatogris says on Nov 24, 2007, 09:54:

But aren't certain abstract qualities such as race and gender part of what make up the individual? Surely we can preserve difference, even in a polity, without ending up with the killing fields or the Hotel Rawanda?

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 24, 2007, 10:50:

Kalder,

I'd like to know who, today, holds "the belief that the individual has no meaning." Except for some fringe wackos, nobody. Most (legal) Communist parties have long dissociated from the Stalinist credo. The insinuation by Pod that Chavez is some sort of modern day Stalin-in-the-making is literally laughable. I'd like to see a trace of evidence of that--Pod's only contribution has been to pass as true poorly forged news and then claiming that he was just joking.

I think there are traces of authoritarianism in Chavez that are really worrisome, but they are not unique (I'd put it at a similar level with Fujimori, Uribe, Menem, and Bush) and it's really something that concerns the Venezuelans and them alone. To put it in the epic outdated terms of Stalinism and Nazism is ridiculous.

What may have confused Pod is that Chavez advocates for a strong role of the State in economic and political affairs. ANY form of government has to deal with the question of how much should individuals sacrifice for the common good and how much people are entitled to keep for themselves. All modern-day Socialist governments (Venezuela, Chile, Spain, Uruguay, Brasil, or the French and Scandinavians just a few years ago, come to mind) lean more toward government intervention than laissez faire. To equate that to Stalinism is brutally stupid. Besides, most governments, socialist or otherwise, necessarily demand some extent of sacrifice from individuals, be it by taxation, military recruitment, "freedom isn't free" slogans, social welfare programs, or just to build a simple street.

As I said before, anyone who in this day and age holds on to the caricatural distinction between left and right, socialism and capitalism, has most likely lost connection to the world.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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manINred says on Nov 24, 2007, 10:59:

Perhaps Podborski, but i think it's important to make a distinction between communism and socialism. What about the new forms of socialism in South America: Morales, Chavez? Land ownership is still very much allowed in both countries. What they are interested in is wealth redistribution, in an effort to even out social inequalities. I don't see the harm in that. Neo-liberalism has hardly worked in Latin America, and quite frankly in order for the continent to progress I would think that wealth must have some means to be redistributed in order for the marginalized poor to have a chance at education, progress, development... and perhaps you're right perhaps the old classic notion of socialism is how you describe, however i don't think anywhere in the world socialism is practiced as such, it is developing in different ways in different countries.

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goin_south says on Nov 24, 2007, 11:18:

...ANOTHER interesting thread I missed, .... and how it has translated... from Mini-Skirts to Communism and Religion....

HEY!!!!!!! SHOW ME SOME LEG!

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Nov 24, 2007, 11:18:

....no bufalo wings, por favor ;)

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Nov 24, 2007, 11:19:

oh,...well... I forgot. Soy un Patico!

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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gatogris says on Nov 24, 2007, 11:47:

Sr Tertius - it seemed to me that what Kalder was getting at (slap me if I'm being too fresh) is that ethnic, religious and other differences based on group identity have been manipulated by power-mongering sociopathic heads-of-state to further their own demented agendas and have resulted in the deaths of millions around the world. To wit: the Holocaust, Russian pogroms, the Balkans, Cambodia, Rawanda, Congo, and even (it could be argued) Brazilian police.

A 'rights-based' political body, on the other hand, usually found alongside some form of democratic tradition, enshrines an individual's rights in law without respect to race or creed or whether or not she/he is a third stage costena transsexual. The individual as a universal category supercedes any 'abstract' category. Thus, universal human rights.

Which still means we have to fight for our right to party.

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 24, 2007, 12:18:

Maybe, but Kalder would have to clarify that. No doubt people have and still use all sorts of simplistic categorizations (including left-right, communism-capitalism) to justify all sorts of things, from the most inane to the most genocidal. I still fail to see how Chavez falls in the latter.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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Peter (Moderator) (Trustee board) (Dev team) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 24, 2007, 12:42:

usher127 says on Nov 24, 2007, 13:00:

I've never really understood....

for a country soooo convinced that live and let die is the way forward, the US is the only country I know that takes a completely different view in sport, i.e. penalising the successful teams to ensure some kind of comfortable balance. Surely sport is the one place where we don't mind seeing teams/people suffer humiliating defeats... because, clearly, its only a game. Imagine penalising the Brazilian national side, or Real Madrid for being too god damn good with the ball. Anyway, I thought i'd throw that slightly odd contradiction into the hat...

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 24, 2007, 13:05:

If you think more individual freedom is a good thing if driven to the extreme, just watch the transportation system in Bogotá (excluding that Socialistic experiment call Transmilenio). Perfect competition doesn't always result in better outcomes--think of Prisoner's Dilemma/Tragedy of the Commons situations. I'm a big fan of marketplace competition for virtually everything except defense, health care, education, and transportation.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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gatogris says on Nov 24, 2007, 13:14:

Peter - the distinction you need for your argument is between positive and negative rights. In the U.S., our Bill of Rights was written with memories of government repression still very vivid, so the framers made sure that the constitution was tilted toward "freedom from," called negative rights. That we have the right to assembly and the right to bear arms is based on our right to throw of the yoke of any opression - violently if need be. Americans were, and largely are, worried mostly about preserving their freedom from government intervention.

In the "nanny states" of Western Europe, Canada to some degree, and Scandinavia, the culture of rights developed differently. Rights-based constitutional documents only became enforceable after WWII, and people in the aftermath of the war were more interested in using the apparatuses of the state to protect themselves and each other. The state was seen as way to organize some preventative measures against absolute privation, the state of "we're all on our own" that many found themselves in after the B-52s were done.

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goin_south says on Nov 24, 2007, 13:39:

Peter..... there are 'Free Clinics' all over the freakin USA for those living under certain levels of economics means.

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Nov 24, 2007, 13:40:

And, there are good dr's and nurses charitably donating time to keep them going.

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Nov 24, 2007, 13:40:

hummm.

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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billyb says on Nov 24, 2007, 21:40:

GS "... from Mini-Skirts to Communism and Religion...."

Patico, sometimes seeing a very pretty girl in a very short mini is akin to a religious experience for some :)

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 24, 2007, 21:42:

I admit I am one of some.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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billyb says on Nov 24, 2007, 21:44:

Amen brother.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 24, 2007, 21:48:

May we now all gather in prayer in honor of the mini mini worn by a very pretty girl. We find our religion in whatever moves us.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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goin_south says on Nov 24, 2007, 21:53:

.....or.... WITHOUT SKIRTS!!! ESTO ES MAS MEJOR!

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Nov 24, 2007, 21:54:

my head...................remains bowed ;)

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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billyb says on Nov 24, 2007, 21:54:

Like I always say, religion is in the eye of the beholder, errr, or is that beauty??

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 24, 2007, 22:01:

uh-oh, this may revive Mona, or at least one of the other pnk panties[I mean panthers].

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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billyb says on Nov 24, 2007, 22:04:

You mean Panthies?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 24, 2007, 22:08:

my post was merely a slip of tongue into the pink panties. now I am pushin it

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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goin_south says on Nov 24, 2007, 22:12:

hey! our resident ...... Houstongal..... mus really have put the blackening on BLACK FRIDAY.... H0ustonGal......donde es?????

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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billyb says on Nov 24, 2007, 22:19:

CD, you're pushing it, 'cause ya know a certain person will not wake up in a couple of hours and slap you upside the head, figuratively speaking of course. HG is helping out the economy.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 24, 2007, 22:24:

oh, uh, good mornin HG, how are ya? yeah, nothing unusual happening here. Carry on.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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christobeldawg says on Nov 24, 2007, 22:31:

a couple of quick edits, and I am off to my dawghouse, alone, as usual. You guys are likely beginning to see why.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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kalder says on Nov 25, 2007, 04:46:

One thing that I have noticed over the years is that, in the parts of UK that are the traditional fiefdoms of the Left (education, much of local government, significant parts of the media etc.) there are an awful lot of nasty, self-righteous, power craving inadequates running the show.

Although they espouse a sort of wishy-washy liberal socialism, their instincts for dominion and bullying are quite breathtaking.

"A piece of cheese may entrap a mouse, but a bicycle could ensnare the Imperial Chancellor."~~An Bai Kuang

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podborski says on Nov 25, 2007, 05:04:

I don't have much time to reply, but let me give it a shot:

Peter: I'm sure we will disagree, I am used to disagreeing with 95% of the general population, as I am a true extremist. I do not think your wife has a 'right' to a free nurse, any more than one has a right to a house, a car, an education etc.

What I believe is that all of those privileges come very easily to almost everyone in a truly capitalist economy, as long as the political institutions are also fair and democratic (preferable a constitutional republic.) The 5% or so that cannot support themselves can be supported by private charity.

This society does not exist, just as a perfectly socialist/communist/marxist society does not exist, although some of the communist experiments that failed came close, and maybe the USA in the 19th century was close to pure capitalism, with a few glaring exceptions such as allowing slavery.

What we have are a bunch of VERY mixed economies, which are not horrible, just inefficient and at times extremely unjust.

In the case of cuba (and the soviet empire before it collapsed, Chile under Pinochet etc.) I would say the situation is (was) far more seriously unjust.

My point continues to be:

The further you move towards centrally planned economies with centralized authority, the more injustice occurs, not to mention the more quickly an economy is destroyed (the latter point is hardly debated anymore, the former one is the one under discussion these days).

The further you move towards capitalism, meaning NO central economic planning, 100% private property, democratically elected gov't with constitutionally protected INDIVIDUAL rights, the better society you have.

So Sweden and Belgium are not dungeons, but I personally would not want to live there. I am a bit scared being in Argentina, where a socialist may decide to take from me at any moment the property I have spent my life saving for and building with my own two hands.

That is one example of injustices that occur when property rights are not recognized.

The myriad examples people will now reel off about supposed failures of capitalism will invariably at their source have an idiotic GOVERNMENT rule/regulation/bureaucrat behind it. I personally guarantee it : )

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podborski says on Nov 25, 2007, 05:11:

sr t: I am not at all sure Chavez will turn into a murdering tyrant, but my suspicion is he will. I admit I could be 100% wrong. But this is an internet forum which has a lot of witty and intelligent people and it is fun to debate things like this, we are not the UN here.

Chavez worries me because he openly idolizes Fidel, and he has made clear he wants to move towards a true socialist state, which on its own is immoral, although of course you and many others will disagree. Things would be pretty dull if we all agreed.

So now you can put me in the 'nutcase extremist' camp and ignore me if you like, I really won't mind.

(and no, I am definitely not an anarchist, which is the only thing worse in practice than communism. Governments have a role, just a very limited one, police, military (self defence only), justice system, that's about it.)

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aztec says on Nov 25, 2007, 06:11:

podborski,

It is refreshing indeed that on this site you can express an opinion that does not mimic the leftist mantra! Often on other sites you would be attacked as some kind of imbecilic monster for beliving in capitalism.

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borat says on Dec 9, 2007, 14:44:

ONE HUGO CHAVEZ..... THERE'S ONLY ONE HUGO CHAAAAVEZ...THERE'S ONLY ONE HUGO CHAVEZ......ONE HUGO CHAVEZ!! I love mini skirts....

what you believe is not important, it's what you do that counts

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borat says on Dec 9, 2007, 14:45:

ONE HUGO CHAVEZ..... THERE'S ONLY ONE HUGO CHAAAAVEZ...THERE'S ONLY ONE HUGO CHAVEZ......ONE HUGO CHAVEZ!! I love mini skirts....

what you believe is not important, it's what you do that counts

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john_stark says on Dec 10, 2007, 06:11:

"Patico, sometimes seeing a very pretty girl in a very short mini is akin to a religious experience for some :)"

You got that right. When I see one, all I can say is "Jesus! Christ! Oh God!".

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christobeldawg says on Dec 10, 2007, 11:28:

Amen brother.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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