Chavez freezes diplomatic relations with Colombia

pedro says on Jul 28, 2009, 17:19:

My take: Chavez got caught with his pants down. For the time being, he's decided to saunter around pretending to everybody that he's still wearing pants.

"this may seem a strange post but it is not...when in colombia men need to be aware that colombia women may try to be seductive and entice a travelling gringo to have sex with them..to be forewarned is to be forearmed..." -- pow wow

1 funny, 2 helpful.

cpchester says on Jul 28, 2009, 17:23:

This isn't good at all.

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pobrecito says on Jul 28, 2009, 17:24:

A long time ago pedro lost his pants.

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makopp5 says on Jul 28, 2009, 17:25:

Chavez is a big lie!!!

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cpchester says on Jul 28, 2009, 17:27:

What do you think the next step in this will be? Chavez stationing troops on the border?

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makopp5 says on Jul 28, 2009, 17:32:

Who is doing all the work en Venezuela? The 3 Millon Colombians. Veneuelan are lazy from nature. He is talking a lot.

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katwhiskers says on Jul 28, 2009, 17:38:

Again???? I need an aspirin... azunoman we need a video here....

I miss the wonderful sound of silver coins in my pocket, abolish the Federal Reserve and bring back real money.

2 funny, 0 helpful.

Dolfi says on Jul 29, 2009, 03:42:

“Tanto la polémica por la supuesta venta de armas a las FARC como el incremento de la presencia militar estadounidense en Colombia demuestran para Chávez que Bogotá "no tiene respeto por los vecinos" ni "le importan las relaciones con ellos". "Si han decidido abrir las relaciones para que Estados Unidos instale no se sabe cuántas bases (...), esta es una agresión. Están demostrando que no les importa un pepino los vecinos. Esto es vergonzoso", aseveró.“

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/internacional/Venezuela/retira/embajado...

This really ist he point, Colombia´s relations to it´s neighbours are getting worse and worse while the government is crawling up uncle Sam´s a**. Maybe good for Uribe and his buddies, but in the long run this clearly damages Colombian interests.

“La relación comercial entre Colombia y Venezuela también se resiente y la cámara de integración bilateral (Cavecol) prevé que el intercambio entre los dos países cerrará este año en unos 5.000 millones de dólares, frente a los 10.000 millones inicialmente previstos. Además, Colombia se queja de la falta de avances en el acuerdo firmado con Venezuela en abril pasado para permitir la exportación de 10.000 automóviles a ese país.”

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cpchester says on Jul 29, 2009, 04:10:

Dolfi I could not disagree more. In the long run, it's going to help to be allies with the US. In the short term with Correa and Chavez it may cause some tension, but the US will remain the strongest economy and most powerful country long after those two have been shown the door.

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makopp5 says on Jul 29, 2009, 04:13:

cpchester
for dolfi it´s his socialism proyect more important than the wellbeing of the colombians. He is happy about everthing that happens negative to Colombia.

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Rikito says on Jul 29, 2009, 05:42:

Chavez is just one hand clapping. All wind and no action. I almost feel sorry for the supporters of his brand of Democracy. If he is the standard bearer for LA socialism then lord have mercy on these poor duped followers. Cause at the end of the day Chubby will be relaxin someplace with a couple of beers and a ton of money and his followers will be busy trying to find a piece of bread to eat. Is Free market capitalism the naswer? Who knows, but for now it sure beats what the chubster has to offer.

The Russians won't be much help cause they are too far from home and I just can't fathom what help they could provide anyway. Russia is more of any ally to the U.S. than to Venezuela.

...and so it goes

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theflatline says on Jul 29, 2009, 05:44:

The Russians just like selling their old gear to Chubez.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

0 funny, 3 helpful.

billyb says on Jul 29, 2009, 06:22:

"This really ist he point, Colombia´s relations to it´s neighbours are getting worse and worse "

Wrong again dolti, Colombia has excellent relations with its neighbors that count. Witness our relations with Brazil, Uruguay, Peru, Chile, Costa Rica, Argentina, Paraguay, Mexico, even Cuba, the only ones we don't have good relations with is our enemy Chavez and his little lap dogs that have to do what he says or the money teat gets shut off, And who wants to have good relations with those little butt monkeys of his? They have no say in their own affairs,

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

1 funny, 3 helpful.

cpchester says on Jul 29, 2009, 06:25:

Great point billyb.

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pedro says on Jul 29, 2009, 08:33:

Let's see that huevon Chavez freeze diplomatic relations with Sweden (and by extension Europe) because Sweden confirmed the FARC weapons came from Venezuela.

Are dolfi and pobrecito so naive they think Sweden is lying in this instance? Chavez claims there's no evidence, but it seems the evidence is convincing enough for any fair minded, reasonable person.

"this may seem a strange post but it is not...when in colombia men need to be aware that colombia women may try to be seductive and entice a travelling gringo to have sex with them..to be forewarned is to be forearmed..." -- pow wow

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Changbeer123 says on Jul 29, 2009, 10:22:

Not one person has stated the obvious, the Colombian government is using problem - reaction - solution often used by the disunited states in order to get exactly what they want, and again they are using it here through Colombia... Ok, lets look at the problem the Colombian government (but really USA) have created.....

The Colombian government (i.e. USA because that is they have found a new toy to play with) are saying the Venezualan government has brought weapons from Sweden in order to provide the FARC with more power than they have already, this is a lie, the Colombian government have used the media to brainwash the masses in Colombia for a reaction.

Lets look at the reaction....the Colombian people are going to react in a way where they are negative about Venezuela and especially towards Chavez, and also will feel threatened about more attcks fromt he FARC, so the people will demand a solution.....and what do we have....here comes the solution.....

Solution, What a shame, USA do not have military bases in Equador anymore, they have been pushed out and not wanted, so they need a new "friend" especially because Venezuela is getting up their noses, so what do they do, they have a solution for the Colombian people....USA military bases in Colombia!! What a fantastic idea, because otherwise the FARC will come and get you. Its all lies people, one more step towards centralisation, one more step towards globalisation. Here is my solution, dont believe the lies and question everything. Wake up people, its so easy.

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turnmeon says on Jul 29, 2009, 11:00:

changbeer123 and wait until farc come and get you..... its all lies? hahaha funny

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Rikito says on Jul 29, 2009, 11:05:

Changbeer123 what you say makes a lot of sense, but how do you respond to 'pedro's' comment. Here you have Sweden saying that the weapons did in fact, come from Fonduland. Then you have El Gordo saying, "No they didn't." I don’t think The Chubster has any trophies on his mantle for telling the truth so that would you like to believe here. If the Swedish weapons did not come from Sweden then where did they come from? Greenland maybe? Now there is an aggressive country.

Who do you believe here? The U,S who could care less what you and I think, Chubista, who could care less what you and I think, Colombia/Uribe, who could care less what you and I think. FARC, who really really could care less what you and I think. Russia, who could care less what you and I think. Me, I would rather believe in Uribe who is directly responsible for the reduction of murders, a free an unbiased supreme court judiciary that is responsible to no one, food jobs, prosperity, kidnappings, political assignations. Illegal drug management programs, The increasingly popular belief by most Colombian that they are safer now than ever before and if you ask them if they are better off now than 7 years ago 100% would say yes. (Even Uribe detractors would have to agree) Sure not everyone is a millionaire, but they are spending all day breaking their backs in a coca field or a re-education center. Me, I want to believe this and many Colombians do as well. At least it is better and more credible than believing that you are from Afghanistan.

...and so it goes

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jul 29, 2009, 12:38:

It's confirmed that these weapons come from Saab Bofors. And that they were sold to Venezuela in the eighties. Furthermore, Chavez has not answered the Swedish inquiry about how the weapons could have ended in the hands of Colombian rebels instead.

Rikito...fondueland? Were you thinking about Switzerland instead?

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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turnmeon says on Jul 29, 2009, 12:38:

heer is a link in spanish to it.

http://www.soitu.es/soitu/2009/07/28/info/1248803453_019148.html

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turnmeon says on Jul 29, 2009, 12:41:

http://www.europapress.es/internacional/sudamerica-00407/noticia-venez...

http://espanol.news.yahoo.com/s/28072009/54/n-latam-suecia-confirma-ar...

http://rcn.com.co/noticia.php3?nt=32228

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billyb says on Jul 29, 2009, 13:01:

"But in saying Colombia is better doesnàt mean it still has not got a long long way to go."

I haven't seen anybody say otherwise, just that things are much better.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Changbeer123 says on Jul 30, 2009, 04:11:

Much better for who exactly? For the majority of Colombia or for the 10% of the population, the rich? What we musn't forget is that Colombian media portrays Colombia to be a happier place, a safer place to be and the FARC to be getting weeker. People who own Colombian media are the rich, they are going to defend the rich because they want to stay rich! Well they forgot to mention that the centre for human rights and the displaced, says there is a 25% rise on 2008 and brings the total displaced since 1985 to 4.6 million and that 2008 saw the rate of displacement rising to levels last seen in 2002, the worst year on record when 410,000 people were forced to flee. These are the forgotten people, people who make up the majority of Colombia! I think the majority is far more important the the minority for obvious reasons.

Rikito would you trust Uribe? I know 4.6 million people wouldnt and rising still. Would i trust Chavez, of course not, would i trust Uribe, of course not, it doesnt mean that if i don't trust one person i must trust another, thats what the illitist want you to do, divide and rule, dont get sucked into propaganda. The last government on earth i would trust is the government from the disunited states, they are the biggest liars on the planet, and they are the ones funding this "war against terrorism" in Colombia, and lets not forget who the terrorists really are in todays world, and lets not forget to question why they are giving "aid" to Colombia, you think its because they are being nice for once, you think pumping millions into Colombia is because they are thinking "right lets be nice, lets help them", of course not, they want control of the drugs. Drugs = Money = Power = Control. Question everything! Rikito "The increasingly popular belief by most Colombian that they are safer now than ever before and if you ask them if they are better off now than 7 years ago 100% would say yes" what you forgot to mention the that the Colombians you ask i can assure you are the rich 100%, they are going to feel safe, wouldnt you with all that money? Go and ask one of the 4.6 million displaced, ask how they feel.

Disunited states have got the hump that Venezuela calls the shots with the oil and they dont like it, just like they didnt like it When Mr. Hussain called the shots in Iraq (again problem-reaction-solution) problem disunited states blew up twin towers, blames it on al queda, we all know that one, reaction from the people and rightly so - lets get the Iraqis even though they have no weapons of mass destrustion or have nothing to do with al queda who were meant to blow them up solution lets kill the Iraqis in order to steal the oil! Question everything. Thank you for your comments.

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makopp5 says on Jul 30, 2009, 04:17:

changbeer

what will you know about Colombia? Haev you ever been there. What are you not talking about the Taliban in your homecountry where you live and born? How many colombian newspaper do you read every day? How many Colombian news do you watch every day? Nothing because in Afghanistan there is no Colombian TV.

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Rikito says on Jul 30, 2009, 07:43:

changbeer, I think you are getting your information from reading articles or by watching TV news programs. Do you have any concept of how many 4.6 people are? Who counted these people? I’ll tell you…no one. These organizations use statistical models that give the data they want. They feed the informational parameters and come with 4.6…why not 4.7 or 4.875946? That is more people than in any Central American and several South American countries and many countries in Europe. You and the Centre for Human Rights and the Displaced are completely wrong in every sense. You are telling me that over 10% of Colombia’s population is displaced? False…foolishly false. Organizations like Centre for Human Rights and the Displaced are left wing socialist organizations with an ax to grind against anything successful. They have little credibility and are hardly viewed as an important source of information.

Like someone else has said here, you are not from Colombia, have never been to Colombia and have very little factual information. You said that, “I know 4.6 million people wouldn’t and rising still.” How do you know these things… from a book? This is foolishness and dangerous talk. I saw a cartoon once that showed a woman in the kitchen cooking food and talking to her husband who is sitting on a couch smoking, drinking beer, and watching TV. The caption read, “I learned to cook the same way you learned how to have sex…from a book.”

And Venezuela, do you know anything about their oil? Its crap…it is so bad they have to give much of it away because it is so difficult to refine. Do you know where Venezuela gets most of their natural gas? From Colombia! Venezuela’s oil is so sour that almost 95% of refineries in the world cannot refine it. Most of those refineries are in the U.S. and China. Venezuela my friend calls no shots in Latin America. What has he done? What positive actions has he done to make the world a better and safer place to exist? He has huge crime rates, funnels money to his friends, has one of the higher poverty and unemployment rates, and buys influence but not long term trust. Tell me please…who are Venezuela’s allies? Ecuador who gets most of their oil for almost nothing from Venezuela? Bolivia the same, plus a lot of cash for Bolivia that is taken from his own people. He gets support from some of his people because he gives them money for doing nothing.

What you have written makes no sense at all. I admit that Colombia is not perfect and has its problems…I am sure that in your country of ‘Afghanistan’ there are some problems as well. Colombia is however working to improve their country and the ‘other’ Latin American/Central American countries would much rather deal with Uribe than El Gordo. Chavez is all talk…he cannot even raise a decent military and like Colombia has called for help...with the Russians? Do you have any idea how far away Russia is from Venezuela? Do you think for a second the U.S. would allow Russia to get to much influence in LA.? It’s all bluster and there is nothing in it for Russia other than to piss off the U.S.

Finally, I don’t have to question everything? I am not that paranoid or sick with foolish thoughts. I live in Colombia and have for several years. I like it here better than in the U.S. I have the same freedoms and the same ability to go where I want and essentially do what I want. I see good happy people…not all rich, and certainly not all poor or displaced. I see real Colombia and Colombians every day. I see many of the problems and hear the complaints. But I also see the ability of the people to speak, act freely. And have the protections of their government. To live in a relatively open society. Colombia is not ruled by the U.S. Maybe in your beloved country of Afghanistan it is but not here. I see people who are happy, working, and prospering a little. I was just in Santa Marta last week and I saw no one begging on the streets or stealing food or protesting for jobs. Why? Because they were too busy working.

Colombia is not perfect and no one said it was. But before you come here with misguided and ill-informed opinions try and get some viable information from someplace other than a left wing socialist organization that is more of a wannabe group than an effective voice of the people.

…and so it goes. be well.

...and so it goes

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billyb says on Jul 30, 2009, 07:51:

The 4.6 million might refer to the total who have ever been displaced since 1985, but doesn't mean that there are 4.6 million displaced at this moment. So it is purposedly misleading.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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turnmeon says on Jul 30, 2009, 08:03:

if Colombia had 4.6 million displaced there wouldnt be much of a country left......think about that

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theflatline says on Jul 30, 2009, 08:15:

And Farc displaced them.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jul 30, 2009, 08:24:

No, the flatline, not just them. The paramilitaries have also displaced a lot of people and even the army and the government institutions have beeen contributing to the displacement of campesinos.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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makopp5 says on Jul 30, 2009, 10:07:

Desi

most are because of Drugmoney which is coming from outside. And this money comes from europe and the us which is financing the violence and displacement. Every drug user is part of the problem.

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Rikito says on Jul 30, 2009, 13:14:

No Des its Swiss. "Fondue is a Swiss communal dish shared at the table in an earthenware pot (caquelon) over a small burner (rechaud). The term is derived from the French verb fondre (to melt), in the past participle fondu (melted)."

...and so it goes

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jul 30, 2009, 13:26:

"Here you have Sweden saying that the weapons did in fact, come from Fonduland." (Rikito) That's why I asked. Were you saying that the the Swedes said that the weapons were Swiss instead?

Makopp, there must be something wrong with me tonight. I don't follow your reasoning either. The displacements are caused primarily by the illegal groups taking over control of land areas and also because the government-sponsored oil-palm cultivation has been an economic activity that the paracos have pushed into large areas of Colombia forcing the peasants either sell cheap or to abandon their lands. I'm sure drug-dealing activities have also caused displacements but the guerrilla and the paracos are by far the groups that are most involved in displacing both indigeneous people and peasants in the peripheria.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Rikito says on Jul 30, 2009, 13:40:

The fact still remains...4.6 million is a lot of people let’s say over a 10 year period. Some people think that it is a small number it isn't. Also, the ways in which these numbers are generated are heavily flawed and mostly made up to suit the mission and aims of the organization reporting them.

For example to digress for the sake of argument. How is unemployment defined? By the number of people unemployed? No it isn't and it is far from it. In the U.S. right now the unemployment rate is 9.5%, but the actual rate is almost 20%. My dada was always pissed at the blacks (he used another word) because they were all on welfare. In fact, he once told me that the U.S. Welfare system is all black people looking for handouts. I argued with him. I asked him if (in 1970) there are let's say 5 million people on welfare and there are about 210 million white people and maybe 15-20 million black people how could the U.S. allow 20% or so of its black citizens to be sitting home watching TV. I told him that he comment was statistically impossible. There are 4 times more white people on Welfare than Black people. (This is where the back of his hand comes out on my fat head).

There are three kinds of lies: white lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Changbeer123 wants me to question everything which I won’t or do not need to except for any small local organization such as the Centre for Human Rights and the Displaced. In fact most of the information they report is bought from other reporting organizations or simply made up. I have tried to read some articles and I have yet to find an article whose author is cited elsewhere. In other words…they mean well I’m sure, but as of yet they have little credibility. So far now, I prefer to listen to Elmo.


...and so it goes!

...and so it goes

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