Cartagena and underage artists dancing for tourist and foreigners

Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 24, 2009, 08:55:

is there supposed to be photos, video, or link?

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 24, 2009, 13:31:

teeo9111 says on Oct 24, 2009, 13:35:

It already is the # 1 tourist city in Colombia,no?

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 24, 2009, 13:55:

I don't have the figures. Although this wiki page states Cartagena is the THIRD most popular destination in Colombia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Colombia

It's probably old data, and I'm suprised Bogotá doesn't score better.

Whatever, although it'd be truly lovely for Cartagena to become a genuine popular tourist resort, I only hope that it wouldn't be for the wrong reasons.

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

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theflatline says on Oct 24, 2009, 14:23:

Because the French, Italians, Canadians, and other countries do not go to Colombia for sex? Only the US citizens?

Europeans have had a far longer time to be degenerate than the rest of the world. Especially in Vietnam and Thailand.

People from the US are generally afraid to go to Colombia, so you have more Spaniards, Frenchmen, and Italians running around.

Darloup, Colombians are a very sexual people, it is a part of their makeup. People have generally been sexually active at a very young age in Colombia for years.. 14 or 15 years old normally, unless someone really believes their girlfriend waited until she was 25 and that lack of hymen was due to she fell on a picket fence with she was 12.

I have seen it over 3 decades in the country, well long before the place was over run with "gringos".

Plus, there has always been an age disparity between men and women in the country for years. Women prefer a more mature man in latin cultures, always have.

Colombia has had hookers since the dawn of time. No tourism or US bases will change that. The tourists actually pay better money.

Colombians need to police themselves on the sexual exploitation of young people before they start pointing the finger at tourists and saying it is their fault.

You are still a tourist, and will be for a long time. You have not yet earned the right to insult Colombia.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 24, 2009, 14:26:

I see these groups almost every day. Most are at least 18, in the company of other adults, and travel in groups. These are not wayward kids nor juvenile delinquents causing problems. I would classify them as definitely artists/dancers/entertainers/nusicians. They are really talented, and work hard for the coins and chump change they get in return from chichipatos like Darloup. However, there is also a group of pre-teens and early teens doing the same, both dancers and musicians. I havent seen any responsible adults walking around with them. These artists are the furthest group away from the sexual abuse victims the post talks about.

Darloup, dont feel sorry for us. We are extremely pleased you dont live here, nor wish to visit here. And keep your generalizations to yourself, like BARFAQUIILLS is any different. ie, with its racist policies of basically dividing the city in two, with its lousy and dirty beaches, with its poxy streets/beach vendors, with its exhorbitant prices. You just described
the city you live in too.

And without tourism, Cartagena will become a PUEBLO.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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johnny2009 says on Oct 24, 2009, 14:28:

What is the legal age in Colombia for dancing?

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 24, 2009, 14:32:

Its 18 to work, i believe. But try telling that to hungry people.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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webmanco says on Oct 24, 2009, 14:33:

The Instituto Colombiano de Bienestar Familiar might be exagerating. Nothing wrong with street artist and kids dancing.

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 24, 2009, 14:35:

I stand corrected, it is 15 with parental authorization.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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babygirl says on Oct 24, 2009, 15:10:

Well said MC. "And without tourism, Cartagena will become a PUEBLO." Thank God for the cruiseships.

Question for Darloop, do you think you would feel differently about Cartagena if you had fallen for and married a lady from Cartagena? Or would you have told her that her city was shit and made her move? Serious question.

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

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babygirl says on Oct 24, 2009, 15:11:

PS: those dancers are fantastic aren't they? So talented.

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 24, 2009, 15:37:

Personal Message to Jorge Redondo: ( No attacks) . Take the dancing away from these kids they will become hookers and panhandlers, (no attacks) Doing what they are doing keeps them from becoming victims of sexual abuse. Those dancers work very hard for what money they can make.


ICBF turn on alerts about children because of dances for tourists in the historic center of Cartagena

ICBF Colombian family welfare institute

According to the entity, these dances are a breeding ground for child sexual exploitation.


"The dances as erotic and sensual dances of Caribbean and African origin, which are made by children at midnight, for foreign tourists in the Historic Center of Cartagena, need to be stopped now," said Jorge Redondo, director of the Instituto Colombiano de Bienestar Familiar (ICBF, Bolivar), while presenting the project to prevent child sexual exploitation, called The Wall is me '.

According to Redondo, the children dance in public places with no control, no responsible adults in hours not suitable for minors.

The problem is not minor if we consider that in Cartagena is estimated that at least 3,000 children are victims of sexual exploitation in travel and tourism context.

There are four formal dancing groups, dancing, mainly in the Parque Bolivar, Plaza de San Diego, the torre del reloj and in front the bar 'Where Fidel'.

These are groups of 20 to 25 children and teenagers, interpreting Mapale, bullerengue just for a few coins in a bag. Other children dance in couples, alone or alongside of drums, dressed in colors. And others are part of formal folk foundation.

All these groups concern to the ICBF. Up to August this year, the institute had 67 cases of child exploitation of children in the historic center, and 145 cases of sexual abuse, 18 more than last year.

And just Renacer Foundation has treated 300 cases this year relating to prostitution, human trafficking or child pornography. Luz Estela Cardenas, director of Fundacion Renacer, told El Tiempo that must be borne in mind that there is underreporting in the figures, as reported cases are exceptional.

"With these children are the ones who we need to work with and the people accompanying them, all related to the theme tourism, must begin to assume an ethical responsibility on the issue," he said.

Gina Ruz Rojas, director of the Institute of Cultural Heritage and Cartagena (IPCC), explained that for several months they’ve been working on the census of these children and the formulation of a decree that will regulate the dances, not only children , but anyone who wants to use the plazas for these shows.

"Until now, these dances are informal, we don’t know when they make them, where, because they are not regulated and precisely what we're doing," he said.

However, according Ruz, the idea is not just to impose some rules or ask permission, but give them support in their legal constitution and undertake.

The decree would help stop abuses, but is primarily intended to bring order to shows in the historical center

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greg says on Oct 24, 2009, 15:49:

I think this article is crap. I`ve seen these kids dancing on numerous occasions around the city. I videotaped a show one night in Plaza Santa Domingo. I really enjoyed the music and dancing, and so did the two families of Colombians with their young kids who were sitting next to me. It was about nine at night.

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Rikito says on Oct 24, 2009, 15:49:

theflatline, I am curious about something. Have you ever been to Colombia? Your profile does not indicate that you have ever been here. If you have been here, how much time have you spent here? Just curious.

I am also curious as to who elected you and Clavo to decide who can offer an opinion or express any kind of dissent and who cannot. Free speech is part of Colombia as it should be. And the way you guys sound if free speech were ever taken away they should start with you two.

I read in here every day about assholes with an IQ two points above a rock criticize the U.S. and anything they try to do. I here this from people who are barely literate and who get 90% of their information from such intellectual sources such Wikki. They have a right to express themselves and offer their opinion. Both here in Colombia and in the U.S. It is a basic freedom.

I would also be willing to bet a good amount of money that Darloup knows more about Colombia and especially its politics that both of you put together. I should add that at leats Clavo is a colombian and is from Colombia and has made some very strong and solid comments in the past but, I don't understand the put down he made on Darloup.

...and so it goes

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ranaquajo (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 24, 2009, 16:03:

Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 24, 2009, 16:05:

didnt. i am a guest here. ah...now i see Rikitos added comment there.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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ranaquajo (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 24, 2009, 16:10:

billyb says on Oct 24, 2009, 16:17:

I don't see what the fok is wrong with those kids dancing for tips. More power to them, the only problem I see, would be cheap ass tourists that don't believe in tipping. (ahhh, let the war begin)

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Saltador says on Oct 24, 2009, 16:22:

I guess I've got my rose colored glasses on again. I've seen these dance groups countless times and sexual exploitation never crossed my mind. Would it be better if they weren't dancing, but just stood there with their hands out? Credit to them for being creative and I would imagine putting in many hours of practice, all for a few pesos. What is their alternative in Cartagena?
And I really want to know where these people get their numbers from:
"The problem is not minor if we consider that in Cartagena is estimated that at least 3,000 children are victims of sexual exploitation in travel and tourism context."
No F-in way is that line true the way they are presenting it.

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Rikito says on Oct 24, 2009, 16:30:

Clavo clavo clavo. Everytime you open your mouth nothing nut puke comes out. You cannot disagree or make an intelligent comment so you just do the only thing you can...make personal attacks. Wow I wish that I were as intelligent as you are.

...and so it goes

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theflatline says on Oct 24, 2009, 16:35:

Rikkito,

I guess my libreta militar and cedula de ciaudano makes me a tad more Colombian than you. Plus, I think Clavo is Mexican American.

Let me know when you and Darloup have had to stand nude all day in a fucking army base getting poked and prodded to get a libreta. Or were in Colombia when soldiers held you at gun point until you showed it, and if you did not have one, you were conscripted and carried off to serve. Oh wait, you can't, because neither of you are Colombian, and I am.

I was taking the piss out of Darloup because he is always posting negative shit about the US(like sex tourism, or sex with teenagers is the US's fault, when Colombians have been doing it for years, and more so Europeans). I guess you never read when he posted that France never had slaves.

I was merely passing my opinion that he needs to really get to know the place before he opens his mouth.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 24, 2009, 16:45:

wwwhitey says on Oct 24, 2009, 18:04:

Anyone who equates this type of talented and cultural dancing with sexual exploitation is an idiot and a pervert. I've seen groups like this dancing on the beach in Cartagena, el Rodadero, in Mexico, and in Havana. It's fantastic.

Whether or not it's appropriate for minors (if indeed they are) to be working at midnight is another question. That is an issue we rich countries have the luxury to debate ... but it's not debatable when you're poor ... it's a matter of survival ...

Whitey

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Cheers Terry says on Oct 25, 2009, 01:27:

Well stated Whitey.

Bullseye.

Cheers,
Terry

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Robert Jorge says on Oct 25, 2009, 02:20:

wwwhitey, you said all that is necessary. Perfect. I totally agree. I saw those dance troups in CTG 2 weeks ago. They were very talented and fun to watch. The underage / sexual exploitation issue wasn't even a thought of mine. To even think of it like that is wierd and perverted like you said. Why would a normal person think of it like that? And like Clavo said: If you take that means of cash flow from those kids, what are they going to do? The answer is what the F-ing dumbass reporter is trying to make scandalous. With no other means of making some pesos doing something legit, many of them probably will / would turn to prostitution and or drug dealing. The report / article is a typical product of a sick mind.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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billyb says on Oct 25, 2009, 02:43:

Those kids are trying to make a living. They are doing it in a dignified manner. A manner that helps tourists see and appreciate Colombian dance and music traditions, a performance that will induce some foreign tourists, assuming that all went well for them, to go back to their home countries and report that they didn't see any gun fights on the streets, but that they did see a talented troop of young Colombians demonstrating the overwhelmingly good side of Colombia. And any idiot that finds something wrong with what they are doing, well, he must have some latent issues.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Robert Jorge says on Oct 25, 2009, 02:56:

Exactly.

Billy, you going to be in Colombia in February? I'll most likely be in Medallo then. I left some really crusty sheets for you at Clavo's. If you are color blind, they should still look all olive green.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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billyb says on Oct 25, 2009, 03:12:

jajaja, I will be there in Jan, but I will make sure he has bought some new ones by then. Try to make it down then

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 25, 2009, 03:45:

I don't get it...why all the hypocrisy?
Children ought to be in their beds sleeping tight and getting rested for the next day in school not dancing half-naked and shaking their underdeveloped booties to tourists at midnight in the public plazas of Cartagena.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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babygirl says on Oct 25, 2009, 06:25:

Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 25, 2009, 03:45 (today): flag
......Children ought to be in their beds sleeping tight and getting rested for the next day in school ....
**********
Desi I agree with you 100% and it's so sad that they are out on the streets along side of all the other child vendors trying to support themselves, but I'd still rather see this then prostitution. It's obviously the lesser of both evils and I would hope they're still going to school, but who knows?

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

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ranaquajo (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 25, 2009, 06:32:

Saltador says on Oct 25, 2009, 06:49:

Desi,
I don't see any hypocrisy, can you please explain?

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 25, 2009, 07:57:

If any of these clueless retards who say they dont go to school, then they are full of shit. Take the time to actually talk to them and you will learn many of the dancers are actually students during the day. Even students need to eat.

underdeveloped booties? obviously you have not see them perform live.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 25, 2009, 08:07:

and i am happy to know that Rikito read my post before it was deleted.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 25, 2009, 08:41:

Rather than go after artists, dancers, musicians, that retard Jorge Redondo should go after all the little kids, like 6-12 year olds running around El Centro with no one to supervise them. I saw a 7 year street kid start a fight with another 10 year old street kid. The younger kid got slapped around. So the younger kid grabs an empty beer bottle off of a table at Donde Fidels and chases the 10 year old near Donde Fidel swinging the bottle at him, and all of this was right in front of the Mayors office! Those kids need attention and direction, not the older dance groups who are sctraching out a living.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 25, 2009, 09:19:

Somebody (Clavo?) mentioned groups of preteens and teenagers also performing. Children and young adults have NO BUSINESS out on the streets at midnight, whether they are dancers or beggars, all of them should be able to get a good night's sleep in a protected environment. Preteens having developed bodies in Colombia? that's pretty much a physiological impossibility. I'm not arguing that point either, but obviously 12-yar-olds out in the mean streets can easily fall victim to crime, there's no arguing against that. ICBF is only doing its job looking into this problem.

Miguel_Clavo, since the PM function doesn't seem to be working: I will not tolerate any more personal attacks from you.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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theflatline says on Oct 25, 2009, 09:24:

For the people of privilege who have never been hungry due to having had the luck to be born in some other place than Colombia. You might need to back to psych 101 and read up on Maslows Hierarchy of Needs.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 25, 2009, 09:36:

See, sleep is all the way in the bottom of the pyramid, right next to sex and breathing.
I totally fail to see the "artistry" in a 12-year-old performing a mapalé on a central plaza of Cartagena at 12 o'clock at night. Tired, hungry, half-naked, without any adult supervision. Sorry. Colombia is a signatory nation of the Geneva Convention and the rights of children. That these rights are continually and categorically denied to a great number of Colombian children should not be considered as the norm, rather as an exception and ICBF is doing its job looking into this matter.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 25, 2009, 09:42:

If someone had anything even close to a clue about these dance groups, the great majority of them are over 18, many are in their early 20s. I stated that i had seen a much younger group, pre teens to early teens, with the only adults in their group being the musicians. These younger dancers are NOT out at midnight as some clueless posters indicated and ASSumed. I saw them during the folklorico events at around 6 pm to 730 pm. And this younger group does not make daily appearances like the other groups do. I have seen them once in the 2 years i have lived here in Cartagena.

Do what you will Desi.....leave his bullshit attacks up and delete mine, no problem, whatever floats your boat. In case Retardo missed my post, i will pm it to him when the pm system is operating. I will be near Armenia in November so we can meet.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 25, 2009, 09:55:

Desi, when was the last time you saw them in Cartagena? or have you ever watched their performances?? and your ASSumptions are not based on any fact. The younger dancers i saw 1 time during a folklorical event. AND they didnt collect money. Read the ages posted by people who have actually seen them dance.

Tired, hungry, half naked without any adult supervision:

Tired? yes, they are basically doing aerobic dancing several times per day. who wouldnt be. These people enjoy dancing and performing in front of audiences.

Hungry? not hardly. if you ever have seen them, walking from plaza to plaza you would know they buy food and drinks every night. please stop making ridiculous statements about which you obviously know nothing about.

Half-naked? you must have a sex hangup or something about how traditional dancers perform. They carry around several sets of traditonal folklorical clothing, including very long colorful dresses, etc. Hardly the strip tease act you are trying to make it out to be.

No adult supervision?? Most of these dancers and musicians ARE adults. But, being lost in some foreign european county you would not know that. and i would even say that all, or very close to all, are over 15, and in the company of other adults.

If you are really so concerned about them, send me money for their support, education, clothing, etc and i will personally deliver every peso you send to them.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 25, 2009, 09:57:

and by the way, in the OP photo, the little girl in the light blue outfit is NOT one of the dancers.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 25, 2009, 10:31:

So many Clueless, So Little Time.......jajajajaj

hey, did that storm last night knock out your power? i lost power for several hours and didnt have internet until this morning....

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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webmanco says on Oct 25, 2009, 10:48:

I am against any law forbiding citizens to try to make ends meet. So street vendors, dancers, etc got my vote of support, but not the mother carrying the babyes at red lights and begging for money, but who is to blame? the government, the father? guerrilla, paracos? corruption, ICBF? who???????

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 25, 2009, 10:50:

i was inside of Donde Fidel due to the rain, then the power went out. In true colombian fashion, everyone kept drinking and dancing to cellphone music! jajajajajjaja....still not sure if Gabriel gave me my correct change after paying the bill.....

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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billyb says on Oct 25, 2009, 17:15:

I am sure desi will send part of her salary to support some of these dancers so they can get good night's sleep, and don't have to dance to eat.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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lpdiver says on Oct 25, 2009, 18:11:

Fundamentaly...the PARENTS and RELATIVES of the children are responsible to see that they are not on the streets at inappropiate times and partaking in inappropiate activities. No amount of legislation will change that fundamental responsibility.

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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Robert Jorge says on Oct 25, 2009, 22:53:

I saw the dance troupes twice. Both times it was around 6pm. Certainly not midnight. The best entertainment though is watching a good mime fight. When one mimo gets into another's territory, those guys can get pretty upset.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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theflatline says on Oct 25, 2009, 23:05:

Robert,

In Manizales during the theater festival in September, all of the street performers descend on the town like a plague of locusts. So you cannot spit without hitting a mime.

I was crossing Parque Bolivar and they had a mime harassing people for money. This really tall guy walks out of the bank and the mime pulls on his, the guy bats him away, the mime pretends to polish his shoes, the guy bats him away, the mime grabs him and kisses him on the cheek, the guy threw a right hook and knocked the mime clean out.

Of course, I always chuckle when I cross the Parque because of the giant gallinaso with a huge boner holding Bolivar's head.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 26, 2009, 06:59:

The funny thing about the two mimes is they fought without saying anything......jajajjaja....fookin hilarious.....but the Michael Jackson looking one slapped the Clown looking one.......a Dead MJ vs Hugo C......jajajjaj......the colombians are feeling the world economic crisis if their mimes start fighting........=)

TFL..i always wondered about that sculpture....weird.......like the bird one at the entrance to Bocagrande near the police substation........odd.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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webmanco says on Oct 26, 2009, 08:04:

*

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 26, 2009, 08:07:

Webmanco, that kid looks tired and hungry. Where are his parents? Shouldnt he be in school?

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Paisa/Calena/Luver says on Oct 26, 2009, 09:02:

All of those kids should be in school but im sure they are just trying to make a buck to put some food on the table.

"PAY ATTENTION! I wonder if that person knows that when we push the FUNNY button, its because we are reading something outrageous, trying to be cynical, derogatory, sarcastic and/or obnoxious!"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 26, 2009, 09:07:

Hmm...i wonder how all of the great Colombian musicians and singers started out? Must have learned to play music and sing after they were adults and finished with their schooling after getting plenty of rest......yes, definitely go to school and study reallllyyyyyyyyyy hard so you can be unemployed once you graduate..........such is the rich life in Colombia.

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Paisa/Calena/Luver says on Oct 26, 2009, 10:09:

MC i think there is room for school and being a musician, I meant what good it is too you as a young adult when you can read the lyrics or the notes. The kids should definitely be literate.

"PAY ATTENTION! I wonder if that person knows that when we push the FUNNY button, its because we are reading something outrageous, trying to be cynical, derogatory, sarcastic and/or obnoxious!"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 26, 2009, 10:14:

PCL...that was not a commentary on your post...=)

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 26, 2009, 10:48:

PCL, yes, I agree, of course. It's not the dancing and being musician part of it that bothers me. (I still think certain traditional dances like mapalé with a pronounced sensual and erotic coreographical component and skimpy outfits is not what I want to see anybody under the age of 12 to perform in public....I don't think promoting infantile sexuality "cute"). I think kids that dance and play an instrument are lovely and entertaining and need to be encouraged to develop their natural talent, but the primary objective of children's upbringing and education is to have them to go to school. Fine, if you can combine the two things, but not always so easy if you stay out on the streets until late dancing for tourists...you may well be too tired or not very alert when going to school the next day.

Education International has mapped the state of Colombian education and teachers' situation and too many children are still dropping out before completing the basic level.

"Education Rights
The government provides free, public education for children aged 5 to 15. Primary education is universal, compulsory and tuition-free, but families are charged for matriculation fees, books, school supplies and transportation, and these costs are prohibitive for the rural poor. The National Department of Statistics (DANE) estimates that 75% of children aged 5 to 15 attend school. School meal programmes have been implemented in some cities.

Children’s education is disrupted for many reasons. The International Organisation for Migration estimates that 6,000 to 11,000 children are members of illegal armed groups. UNICEF puts the number higher, at 14,000. Children are recruited forcibly, but an estimated 83% of child soldiers are volunteers. An increase in the number of minors deserting illegal armed groups is reported even though children fear for the safety of their families if they leave. These former child soldiers have had little schooling and require special assistance to be integrated into education. The high incidence of child victims of extrajudicial killings is cause for concern. An ILO Committee urged the government to monitor the extent of violence, sexual abuse, neglect, maltreatment or exploitation of children within the family, schools and institutions or in other care. Training is urgently needed for professionals working with children.

Education International and its member organisation FECODE have encouraged the development of curricula for the reintegration of former child soldiers into school as well as the development of teaching manuals and material dedicated to education for peace and reconciliation. However, the government has presented a constitution reform bill to Congress that would restrict budgets for education and health care."
http://www.ei-ie.org/barometer/en/profiles_detail.php?country=colom...

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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webmanco says on Oct 27, 2009, 14:22:

Something like this need to be done in Colombia

http://www.eltiempo.com/mundo/euycanada/rescatan-a-52-menores-de-la-pr...

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 27, 2009, 17:51:

I wonder how many of them were dancers?

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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webmanco says on Oct 27, 2009, 17:56:

Where is Carita de Angel and GringoLoid when needed?

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 27, 2009, 17:56:

I want to play a game. The "Count How Many Tired, Hungry, Half-Naked Under 18 Year old Folkloric Dancers Without Adult Supervision Game" can you spot. If PBH was more interactive, we could pin the feathers on them in the photos. Antithesis and i had 1 beer each yesterday in front of Donde Fidel, the bar mentioned in the article. AT was kind enough to snap the photos. i will post them tomorrow. Please take a few moments to identify how many of the dancers fit in above category. We will try to take photos of the 3-4 other dance groups as well. Hopefully, we can bury this dead horse, and some PBHers will finally be enlightened. Lets Play!

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 27, 2009, 18:30:

No cheating, AT! Btw, the power went off in my office for 4 hours, so i had to return to DF for 1 Beer, and wait until the power went back on so i could turn the AC and lights off. I did that and just missed another Dance group..A missed kodak moment!

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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billyb says on Oct 27, 2009, 18:35:

So where are the twelve year olds that Desi keeps harping on?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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MaBarker says on Oct 27, 2009, 21:59:

hmmm, here are some street performers in Stockholm, Sweden. The one on the left looks half-naked.
The one on the right looks about 12. They look a little undernourished as well.

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MaBarker says on Oct 27, 2009, 22:22:

Look at what the sign says in the money box. "Vi behöver pengar för orgie i kväll."

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 28, 2009, 05:25:

You guys disgust me.
There are few things that I consider off-limits for dumbass jokes and the situation of the children in many poor neighbourhoods in Colombian cities is one of them. I find your attitude offensive and callous.
This topic is closed.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 28, 2009, 05:27:

Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 28, 2009, 06:20:

Billy: questions about moderation decisions may be best discussed in private. If you have a policy question please place your thread in the appropriate forum (About PBH).

Mako the discussion has moved way beyond any objections to DANCING. It never was an issue as it is not controversial. However, there are people on this board who seem to THINK they have a better grasp on the situation of poor children in Cartagena than the government institution like ICBF who has been working on those issues for half a century and they are genuinely WORRIED about sex tourism, minors in the sex industry and the drop-out rates in the primary schools of Cartagena and other cities. It's nothing to make fun of. The joking was in extremely bad taste

Also, the question you asked is poorly formulated. It should read: Is it not better for minors to be performing folkloric dances late at night on the streets of Cartagena than sleeping in their beds, getting a good night's rest before another day at school?

One thing that I found most disturbing during my last visit to Colombia was the amount of very young children out in the streets very late at night. Five-year-olds reaching a grimy hand towards a car window at red lights for a coin at 11 pm. in Cali? Whole families of displaced people walking the streets after nightfall, looking for a place to bed their babies they were carrying in their arms. It was heart-breaking. Kids performing circus acts in front of the cars, selling chewing gum or just begging....

Yes, I have a very low tolerance for dumbass joking about the plight of children in Colombia.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 28, 2009, 06:33:

billyb says on Oct 28, 2009, 06:33:

Desi, thanks for opening this thread to comments again. You say we disgust you because, unlike you, nobody else sees anything wrong with young adults and older teenagers trying to make living dancing typical Colombian dances for tips from tourists, how do you get from there to "disgusting"? Anti-todo and Clavo were there and saw them in the last couple of days and saw no twelve year olds overtly exploiting their "sexuality" way past mid-night. On what do you base your assertions? When was the last time you were in Cartagena and saw any dancers?"



"Also, the question you asked is poorly formulated. It should read: Is it not better for minors to be performing folkloric dances late at night on the streets of Cartagena than sleeping in their beds, getting a good night's rest before another day at school?"

I have a feeling that they will sleep much better and be able to concentrate more at school if they have food in their stomachs, and unless you have a better solution for them in the short term than to make some money dancing, what they "should be doing", in an ideal world, is irrelevant to the discussion.



"BTW the article said they are between 20 to 25 years of age, well I don't see any problem there."


But Kat, if you divide it by two, as desi seems to have done for her argument's sake, you do get 12.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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MaBarker says on Oct 28, 2009, 06:50:

The joking was directed towards euro socialists and their desire to impose hypocritical authoritarian political control over other cultures. The Roman Catholic church, a european created exploitative monopoly is more responsible for the plight of children begging in the streets at night.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 28, 2009, 06:51:

No one is saying that 12 year olds should be out late at night. The idea that these dancers are 12 year olds is ridiculous, and will be proven by the photos of the actual dancer mentioned in the article. Everyone can decide for themselves if these dancers qualifiy as sex abuse victims, under fed, under developed, tired, hungry..etc......

If those holy government agencies were so concerned about the plight of children, they would be rounding up all the children vendors walking around til 2am on the streets of Cartagena. THESE kids are as young as 5-6 years old?? Where is the article about them? Where are the government agencies? where is the concern for them? The hypocrisy is amazing. Forget about the 5-6 years, lets go after the people in the photos? That to me is Disgusting with a capital D.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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billyb says on Oct 28, 2009, 07:01:

"One thing that I found most disturbing during my last visit to Colombia was the amount of very young children out in the streets very late at night. Five-year-olds reaching a grimy hand towards a car window at red lights for a coin at 11 pm. in Cali? Whole families of displaced people walking the streets after nightfall, looking for a place to bed their babies they were carrying in their arms. It was heart-breaking. Kids performing circus acts in front of the cars, selling chewing gum or just begging...."

While what you describe above is disturbing and something should be done about it, what does that have to do with the subject at hand? Which is about young ADULTS and older teenagers dancing for tips, and per Clavo and Anti, who actually saw them, it was no where near mid night. And nobody was making fun of hungry 12 year olds, they were making fun of the Swedish dorks in the photo.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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MaBarker says on Oct 28, 2009, 07:42:

hmm, swiss chocolate company, Nestlé, exploiting Swedish child workers and keeping them in 'slave like conditions'. pot-kettle.

http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=3597

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 28, 2009, 08:31:

I'm really confused now.....
Nestlé, a multinational Switzerland-based company and Kraft-owned Marabou are being investigated by Swedewatch for the conditions on the plantations in West Africa where the cacao they buy is coming from. It seems to be that these plantations are employing child workers in slavery-like conditions. I doubt very much that these children should be Swedish....hmmmmm.

The article mentioned groups of 20-25, that being the size of the groups not ages of the performers. Several groups were mentioned, perhaps some of them are made up of performers that are not minors and some do include youngsters.

No, it has been three years since I was in Cartagena the last time. I saw a lot of unsupervised kids out on the streets at night but they weren't dancing.

Oh and Sapito,
I DO consider the exploitation of children in Colombia a REAL problem.
You don't?
.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 28, 2009, 08:36:

Proof is in the Pudding?.......GAME ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 28, 2009, 08:39:

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 28, 2009, 08:39:

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 28, 2009, 08:39:

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 28, 2009, 08:41:

PS: The photo file size was left large to provide details for inspection.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 28, 2009, 08:43:

Nice pictures, Clavo.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 28, 2009, 08:56:

If they are not super clear you can blame AT and the 1 Beer he had..His eyes were cloudy, hence the cloudy photos. =)

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 28, 2009, 10:13:

Young men and women in those pictures, in that group, certainly, I'd say between 16 and 25. I'm glad there are no kids, but as I already stated, it's not the DANCING that I have problem with and I believed what you and Anti were saying from the beginning that the groups that you have seen did not include any children under 12 during these nighttime presentations.
BUT I still believe that the director of ICBF for the region was not just pulling this issue out of thin air.
I love Colombian folklore and I think children performing as dancers and musicians are totally charming, but there a proper place and time for that.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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billyb says on Oct 28, 2009, 10:17:

I'm glad we cleared that up, and apology accepted Desi ;)

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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billyb says on Oct 28, 2009, 10:23:

jaja, yup, sometimes I just can't help myself.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 28, 2009, 10:25:

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

I told you that the first time we met a Tony Romas.....=)..you were pretty blitzed, though, which might explain the amnesia...

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 28, 2009, 10:26:

Many of the dancers and musicians are married to other members of the dance group.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 28, 2009, 10:30:

Desi, we are only talking about 4 dance groups with maybe a dozen people each. so about 50 people. They work every night of the week. If AT and i can see they are old enough, so can that bozo Jorge Redondo can as well. But wait, that means he would have to get off his bureaucratic ass and go see for himself.

Check out this clueless FOOL:

"The dances as erotic and sensual dances of Caribbean and African origin, which are made by children at midnight, for foreign tourists in the Historic Center of Cartagena, need to be stopped now," said Jorge Redondo, director of the Instituto Colombiano de Bienestar Familiar (ICBF, Bolivar), "

JAJAJAJAJJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 28, 2009, 10:33:

DAMN THOSE FOREIGNERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 28, 2009, 10:51:

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 28, 2009, 11:00:

Oh, where did I say I was apologizing?
I still think those jokes were in poor taste.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 28, 2009, 11:16:

Now accepting $$$ donations for those tired, hungry, underdeveloped, more than half naked dancers in the above video. I will personally see to it that all funds will be delivered to those poor women. Heaven help them! We need to SAVE them NOW!

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 28, 2009, 11:21:

Would you like to see your 12-year-old daughter dancing mapalé in one of those "outfits" without adult supervision on a plaza at midnight for tourists?

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 28, 2009, 12:25:

Clavo says it doesn't pay to go to school....

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 28, 2009, 12:43:

Those girls are 12 years old dancing mapale in that video, Desi? NOT! Quit the embellishment. or you might get one of these:



Yep, go to school and be unemployed after graduation for most of your life...then hit 30 and become undesirable as an employee.......its the Colombian way.

So how much does it pay for all those unemployed graduates who go years without jobs, Desi? They should have been dancers and work 7 days a week......

Hell, if Rubito says its OK for his daughter to become a hooker, then who cares if older teens support themselves by dancing.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 28, 2009, 12:52:

DID I say that those girls were 12?
I posted the video of mapalé dancing just for the benefit of any reader who might think these dances are something like the cuenca of Chile or marinera of Peru...a totally different animal.

I don't even know why we are having this discussion. The issue is not DANCING. It's young children out on the mean streets without adult supervision late at night.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 28, 2009, 12:58:

So why are you hung up on the number 12? No one else is.

Ok, so where are the young children that you speak of? They are not the dancers, that has already been established, has it not?

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 28, 2009, 12:59:

I will tell you where they are....on the streets out at midnight right in front of the Ctg Mayors office, and past the bed time of that idiot Jorge Redondo, director of the Instituto Colombiano de Bienestar Familiar (ICBF, Bolivar).

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 28, 2009, 14:21:

Maybe that's where they go after they've finished dancing...what do I know.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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MaBarker says on Oct 28, 2009, 20:00:

......I'm really confused now.....
Nestlé, a multinational Switzerland-based company and Kraft-owned Marabou are being investigated by Swedewatch for the conditions on the plantations in West Africa where the cacao they buy is coming from. It seems to be that these plantations are employing child workers in slavery-like conditions. I doubt very much that these children should be Swedish....hmmmmm.........

It was confusing because the link was from another Swedish blog where they were discussing the Swede employees of Nestlé that are managing the children held in slave like conditions. That's why Swedewatch was invoved. Sorry for being vague. But iIt shouldn't matter whether the children are Swedish or not.........just that they are children. The jokes above were directed at eruo-socialist hyprocrisy not children in anyway.

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webmanco says on Oct 31, 2009, 18:24:

There she goes, she is maybe 15 years old.

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 31, 2009, 18:27:

Webmanco: I was tempted to post this link: http://colombiareports.com/opinion/117-cantonese-arepas/5581-developin...

Including this:

"The level of sex tourism in Cartagena is already alarming when compared with past years. According to Mayerlin Vergara, who works for Fundacion Renacer (NGO working to prevent the sexual exploitation of children), half the people on Cartagena’s streets after certain hour at night are connected to the sex trade. Moreover, Fabian Cardenas, regional director of the same foundation, claims that “the simple fact of looking like a tourist means you're likely to be offered these things [sex with adults and children] by people working in the informal tourism industry.” Cardenas estimates that there are 650 children working in Cartagena’s sex trade."

Then perhaps I won't... ;-)

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

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webmanco says on Oct 31, 2009, 18:33:

http://colombiareports.com/opinion/89-from-the-editor/4299-dear-sex-to...

Dear sex tourist, so sorry we're scaring you


While going through Colombia Reports' stats, I found a lot of incoming traffic from internationalsexguide.info, a forum for those who enjoy traveling to see their sexual needs fulfilled (for cheap). It seems there is an increasing concern among sex tourists about visiting Medellin because it's so dangerous.

There's no denying that Colombia, and especially Medellin, has a security problem. After all, this is a country that's been at war for the past 45 years and produces most of the cocaine that's being snorted by those that can afford it in the U.S. and Europe. It's no more than logic that war and drug gangs are causing security issues.


Thanks to President Alvaro Uribe's 'Democratic Security' Policy the situation inside cities and in tourist areas has become relatively safe over the past few years, resulting in a very welcome rise in tourism.

Unfortunately, Medellin, but also Bogota and Cali, saw a surge in crime recently.


So far, the violence has been confined to the rural areas of Colombia and in the case of Medellin, to the poor neighborhoods and to a lesser extent downtown. It has not even come close to the tourist areas or the middle class suburbs and is still nothing, compared to the violence Colombians endured in the 1990's and early 2000's.

Among those attending internationalsexguide.info there is an increasing panic about this increase in crime though, especially after a French citizen was found murdered in Bello, just north of the city. Reports from CR and personal observations fuel the fear.


"One of our guests a few months back witnessed a guy being shot the bottom side of Parque Poblado. Also three guys including a police officer being shot at a bank hold up not far from the Mansion, we went down and had a coffee at Juan Valdes and watched the guys being loaded into the ambulances," 'Aussie Greg' wrote to add fuel to the fire.


'Jazzplayer', one of the regular members of the sex forum, advices his fellow sex tourists to choose Cartagena over Medellin, because of the safety.


One of the members of the board, wisely notes that "the effects of the Global Recession are beginning to take its toll on Colombia. Jobs in Colombia are dwindling, especially Medellin are dwindling. Colombia's GDP is decreasing. Colombians are desperate, therefore-to obtain funding to take care of their basic necessities-criminal acts are increasing,"

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 31, 2009, 18:42:

Saltador says on Oct 31, 2009, 18:53:

Sorry guys, but just more exaggerations. I've been to Cartagena maybe 25 times now, and have only seen obvious underage prostitutes twice. Hardly anyone sticks out as an extranjero more than me, yet I've NEVER been offered or approched to have sex with children, and I've been all over Cartagena at all hours of the night and day.

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 31, 2009, 19:05:

Saltador, sorry, but you can't really extrapolate from your individual experience in order to draw overall conclusions.

Are you thus saying that this kind of report: http://colombiareports.com/opinion/117-cantonese-arepas/5581-developin... doesn't count and should be dismissed?

Your own experience is indeed important. But, to draw meaningful conclusions, the experience of other travelers is equally important.

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 31, 2009, 19:06:

i am with Saltador on this one. People like those NGOs like to fudge things to justify their existence. They pull numbers out of their asses. They like to creat a "Crisis" so people pay attention to them. I have never been solicited for sex with children in all the time i have spent here since 2002, and that includes living here for the last 2 years. They have the art of embellishment down pat.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 31, 2009, 19:09:

Yes Darloop....colombianreports is a mediocre half ass effort at crisis journalism. Sort of like a High School Newspaper.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 31, 2009, 19:11:

Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 31, 2009, 19:14:

No, who is denying that it doesnt exist? Saltador? You? Me? sorry,,,now you are embellishing......you should work for colombianreports.....there is a problem, but the reality is not as they are portraying it in the rags......

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 31, 2009, 19:15:

S_E_N_S_A_T_I_O_N_A_L_I_S_M is what it is.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 31, 2009, 19:18:

Saltador says on Oct 31, 2009, 19:23:

We're saying it exists...they're just exaggerating greatly.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 31, 2009, 19:30:

Exactly....and it has nothing to do with defending "my" city.....like it doesnt exist in "your" city? Barranquilla? yeah right....it is happening in every city in every country. I have put more than my fair share of pedophiles in the slammer.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 31, 2009, 19:34:

Miguel_Clavo says on Oct 31, 2009, 19:38:

That is because of amateurish investigative journalism and media hacks who just cut/past the stories over and over....Obviously the sexually abused kids in Barranquilla are not noteworthy....so for the media and its groupies, it doesnt exist?

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Saltador says on Oct 31, 2009, 19:55:

Darloup,
You say you're not responsible, but you're posting/repeating their assertions in a public forum. So in a way, you are responsible.

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 31, 2009, 20:01:

I would guess that Barranquiila has the same problems - maybe even worse.

But, for some reasons, Cartagena gets all the publicity;

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/sex-tourism-taints-cartagena/artic...

http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=5&v...

I'm not really responsible if a Google search for "Cartagena and sex tourism" yield 15800 results....

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

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Monpirri says on Nov 4, 2009, 17:21:

I agree with Jorge Redondo, director del Instituto Colombiano de Bienestar Familiar (ICBF, de Bolívar).
Exotic dancing at night performed by kids on the streets in Cartagena or any where else in Colombia needs to be banned and the vocal promoters of this "cultural" events where these kids perform for potential customers need to be prosecuted to the full extend of the law! 20 years sentence is the punishment that these foreigners and/or Colombian assistants in the business deserve! I believe that is the new Colombian law.

Colombia's Senate approved a bill that allows judges to send sex offenders to jail for twenty years.
The law seeks to diminish the growing amount of sex tourists in Cartagena, the Coffee region, Barranquilla, Santa Marta, Bogota, Los Llanos and Choco and send those who have sex with minors or produce pornography with minors to jail with longer sentences.
According to senator Armando Benedetti (Partido de la U), the bill also allows to implement mechanism that can expel sex tourism from the mainstream tourism sites and helps authorities fight promotion of illegal sex on the internet and force airline companies to put more energy in the prevention of sex tourism through information.
The bill will now be sent to the House of Representatives for a vote.
http://colombiareports.com/colombia-news/news/4228-senate-approves-bil...


El Senado aprueba endurecimiento de penas contra pornografía infantil
MIÉRCOLES, 27 DE MAYO DE 2009 08:36 EFE, BOGOTÁ

(Colprensa / VANGUARDIA LIBERAL)
El Senado colombiano aprobó hoy un endurecimiento de las penas para quienes promuevan la pornografía infantil y el turismo sexual, conductas que ya está tipificadas en el Código Penal pero con condenas más leves.

Quien fotografíe, grabe, produzca, divulgue, compre, venda, porte, transmita o exhiba, por cualquier medio, para su uso personal o intercambio, pornografía infantil pagará con 20 años de cárcel.

Igualmente, se condenará con hasta ocho de cárcel a los promotores del turismo sexual que usen menores, dijo el autor de la iniciativa, el parlamentario William Vélez.

"Sin duda es una buena noticia para el país", afirmó el legislador, quien señaló que la ley deberá pasar a conciliación, pues los textos aprobados en Cámara y Senado son diferentes.

Vélez agregó que espera que la semana entrante se concilien las dos versiones y la resultante sea enviada al Ejecutivo para su sanción presidencial.

De acuerdo con un comunicado del senador Armando Benedetti, ponente de la ley, "la iniciativa busca ponerle freno al turismo sexual infantil", ya que "zonas como el Eje Cafetero, Cartagena, Barranquilla, Santa Marta, Bogotá, los Llanos y Chocó son sitios donde se está cometiendo este delito sin que exista un control real".

La nueva norma establece que el Ministerio de Comunicaciones tendrá competencia para ordenar a los proveedores de servicios de Internet incorporar cláusulas obligatorias en los contratos de portales de Internet relativas a la prohibición y bloqueo de páginas con imágenes pornográficas de menores de edad.

Igualmente, establece que las aerolíneas adoptarán códigos de conducta eficaces que promuevan políticas de prevención y eviten la utilización y explotación sexual de niños y adolescentes.

La pornografía infantil tiene actualmente una pena de entre seis y ocho años de cárcel, mientras que el turismo sexual se castiga con penas que van de tres a ocho años.

http://www.vanguardia.com/pais/103/29331

"Anyone who still thinks that Colombia is not a gastronomical paradise needs to have their head examined." Darloup

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Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 4, 2009, 17:27:

Another clueless fool...consider the source of the post.....enough said.....those dancers have nothing to do with sex tourism...they are artists. some people are just too stupid to see the difference. pathetic.

who here has actually seen them dance, and spoken to them?

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Monpirri says on Nov 4, 2009, 17:29:

It's the LAW!

"Anyone who still thinks that Colombia is not a gastronomical paradise needs to have their head examined." Darloup

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Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 4, 2009, 17:41:

Cant read can you? hopeless. AT and i just took photos of those "kids"....how many kids do you see in those photos i posted who are among those dancers, Monpi? Have you ever even see them? like i said, Clueless and IGNORANT.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Monpirri says on Nov 4, 2009, 17:47:

IT'S THE LAW AND IT WAS PASSED BY THE SENATE TO GET RID OF PERSONAS NON GRATAS WHO ARE INVOLVED IN THIS CLANDESTINE VENTURE.

"Anyone who still thinks that Colombia is not a gastronomical paradise needs to have their head examined." Darloup

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Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 4, 2009, 17:49:

And you of all people accusing these artists/dancers of engaging in this with sex tourists:

"sex with minors or produce pornography with minors to jail with longer sentences."

Anyone who thinks these dancers/artists are the people who are engaging in the sex tourism controversy has their head up their ass, and have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Shame on YOU!!!!!!!!!

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 4, 2009, 17:51:

are you saying those dancers are part of the sex tourism industry?

also, if the bill still needs to go to another legislative body for approval, then IT IS NOT THE LAW YET!!!!!!! Must i school you on EVERYTHING???

wanna buy a clue, MP?

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Monpirri says on Nov 4, 2009, 18:00:

I'm going to bed and does not matter if you round-up your beloved friends here to support your grandiose comments/jokes about Colombia.
It's the LAW!

"Anyone who still thinks that Colombia is not a gastronomical paradise needs to have their head examined." Darloup

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Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 4, 2009, 18:15:

You cant even read your own post.....YOU POSTED THIS:

The bill will now be sent to the House of Representatives for a vote.

Do you NOT understand how laws are passed??? Go back to school, please. Those 8 year olds can explain it to you.

Also, you never answered my questions? do you honestly think those dancers are involved in the sex tourism trade? or do you just love to wave banners for no reason?

I am saying that the dance groups identified by that frickin idiot and your idol, Jorge Redondo, are NOT the minors who are involved in the sex tourist trade, and are NOT the onew who need protection. is that so difficult to comprehend?

we need a DNA check done here..i think your DNA will match KY's DNA......

Damn Yankees.....two more runs....crap.

Sweet Dreams.....=)

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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